Moving E-35 traveler forward

[dcapn@hotmail.c]

Aloha,
I have a '79 E-35 that I want to move the traveler to over the cabin (for several reasons, the main one is to allow a full bimini for the cockpit). If you have done this or know anyone who has done it I would like to know how successful it has been (i.e. is hauling the main to close-hauled really difficult or what?). FYI: I am using a diminished (Cat-30) main because of the strong-winds here in Hawaii. Also: if you have done this and have pics of your full-bimini, please post a side-view of the bimini (or email to me: dcapn@hotmail.com), so I can see how you arranged your bimini-struts. Thanks one and all...Mike G. in Honolulu

 

[gareth harris]

The deck over the cabin is 1/2" balsa, and not stong enough to take the load of the traveller, and it is also curved, so rebuilding the deck would be a huge job. The rigging and block and tackle arrangements would be somewhat easier, but you would need backing blocks at a minimum under the deck where any hardware took the load, which would mean cutting all sorts of holes in the headliner in the cabin.

I think it is a generally bad idea (very bad idea in fact). An Ericson is a sailor's boat, and for the performance there must be certain compromises such as a traveller in the cockpit (I was once told Ericsons sell for good money in Hawaii due to their ability to handle the wind). Other boats are better designed for comfort on the water, they just sail like pigs.

Several owners have had full length biminis made for the dock, there are pictures available on this site.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[PDX]

Curved cabin top

A curved cabin top is a problem only if you intend to use your original traveler. If you're willing to get a new one, Garhauer can bend a traveller and alter the mounting brackets to fit any cabin top.

 

[Rocinante33]

I think that Gareth is correct about lack of strength in the cabin top. Also, the boom is not strong enough to have the load of the sail imposed at the clew on the aft end of the boom, countered by the load of the traveler pulling the opposite direction in the center of the boom. It may bend like a pretzel.

Do you only need the shade at anchor & in the slip? Use an over the boom cover (for lack of a better term). We have a homemade cover that works great in port. Stow it easily while sailing or if the wind is too strong in port.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Enjoying a full Bimini

Mike, If having the Bimini while at anchor or elsewhere is your goal, you might want to do what we did. I added a simple snap shackle to the main sheet blocks at the traveler and when not in use, I move the entire affair, boom and all to a D-car on the Genoa track. In our case, we are able to sail with a Bimini but moving the main sheet out of the way allows us to zip in an insert between the Bimini and the dodger allowing for more than 12 feet of protected area in the cockpit and then some. You might want to consider some variation of our successful method. Keep us all posted, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[CaptDan]

I think it is a generally bad idea (very bad idea in fact). An Ericson is a sailor's boat, and for the performance there must be certain compromises such as a traveller in the cockpit

No truer words have been spoken, IMO.

Despite the fact that most (but not all) modern sailboats feature cabin mounted travelers, the handling barriers presented by that arrangement mitigate other perceived conveniences. The ability of the short handed helmsman to swiftly adjust the mainsheet and traveler without having to dive forward is nothing to take lightly.

Glyn's idea is excellent, and is a far better way to go with these boats than trying to reinvent the wheel only to end up up with a flat tire.

Capt Dan G> E35II "Kunu"


Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[PDX]

curious about the cabin not being strong enough

Two people have suggested the E-35-2 cabin top is not strong enough for a cabin top traveler. Why wouldn't it be? A half inch balsa sandwich cabin top is extremely common in FG boat construction and lots of people (in my area at least) have retrofitted travelers on top of older boats.

Is there some particular weakness in the E-35-2 cabin top construction, such as it not being a true sandwich? My E-30-1 was not a true sandwich. Only the cabin top had a balsa core. The cabin sides were nothing but a loose strand glass mixture apparently poured into a mold, probably 1/4" thick.

 

[Glyn Judson]

What's under your traveler?

Mike, pdx and all, I can't speak for any boats other than the two Ericsons I've owned and currently have. In both cases, on our previous 1979 E25+ and our current E31, the bridge deck mounted traveler is backed up with 3/4" plywood and aluminum backing plates. I'd have to think that at a bare minimum, a curved traveler with contact to the boat at only the ends would be a lot more sturdy if mounted to a BIG chunk of plywood under each of the two mounting points. Mike, would your bridge deck be a candidate for relocating the traveler to or would there still be too much load on the boom there? Anyone else have thoughts they'd like to share? Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[gareth harris]

Is there some particular weakness in the E-35-2 cabin top construction, such as it not being a true sandwich? My E-30-1 was not a true sandwich. Only the cabin top had a balsa core. The cabin sides were nothing but a loose strand glass mixture apparently poured into a mold, probably 1/4" thick.

The E35 cabin top is the same as what you are describing. Remember we are talking about 30+ year old boats, with a lot of time expanding and contracting in the sun to weaken the bond in the deck, plus there is also a good chance of water intrusion in that length of time (in 30+ years it is pretty much guaranteed that at least one owner will have been guilty of neglect). When I pulled apart my deck at age 32 years there were only a few areas that were still well bonded, most of it was starting to delaminate if it had not already done so; and there was quite a bit that had got very soft.

In the hurricane damage that forced my repairs, the deck hardware was mangled in some areas where the deck was totally undamaged; whereas in the areas with soft core the hardware had been ripped right out leaving a hole in the deck; so you are correct that well built 1/2" balsa core is very strong, the problem is that it does not always stay that way.

I do not know of a rule of thumb for calculation shock loads in sailboat rigs, which is what you would need in order to compare it to tolerances in the materials in the deck; but Ericson designed the traveller to run on a deck cored with plywood, at a point on the boom where the load is a lot less than it would be on the cabin top, and I am inclined to trust they did it for a reason. They mounted staysail tracks and winches on the cabin top, but the loads involved are a lot lower than those of the mainsail.

Another nice feature of the E35 traveller is that it can be adjusted without adjusting the mainsheet, which would be lost in a cabin top arrangement.

I would also be especially cautious doing anything to weaken the boat sailing off Hawaii, where in the event of catastrophic failure the next stop is Polynesia.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[steven]

Even if the cabin top, with a backing plate, carries the load, what about the joint between the cabin top and the cabin sides? Just about the entire load has to be carried by the joint. I think there would be a danger of lifting the cabin top away from the cabin sides.

Probably cheaper and safer to have two Bimini (is Bimini the plural of Bimini?) - one over the cockpit and another small one for the skipper's well. I have none at the moment - still pondering and hoping for a better solution.

--Steve