Need some advice on Ericson 33

[CSMcKillip]

i spent the weekend on the boat and got my builge pump replaced along with a new float switch. Over the winter I never really needed to check on the boat as this was the 8th season of putting our Ericson up over the winter. 2 months ago/spring I had gone up to our boat for the first time and there was about 14 gallons of water in the bilge. My pump was broken as well as my float switch. Both baterries were dead and my two stage 24v charger had 1 side staying it had damage.

Over the last 6 weeks I have gone up to the boat to 1. Replace the pump, then to find the float was broken- water witch... non mechanical. I replaced both batteries and last night spent the night on the boat to try and find the leak. Every week I would have the exact 14 gallons of water in the bilge, I got a new float finally installed today so this week I may be able to sleep at night..lol.

so, here is the deal, the boat next to me was hit directly with lighting, the other boat next to me was also experiencing electrical problems and all 3 of us had to replace our batteries.

after hand drying the bilge and watching I noticed that water was coming in from the rear keel bolt. I would shop vac it dry and almost instantly had water around the bolt. It’s confirmed that water is coming from this area first, but I also noticed that between the tri-axle grid there are holes between them so I assume water could move for and aft. It looked like water was also coming in from these holes.

so now I’m thinking that the keel to hull joint has been compromised in some way.. I may even have a hole in my keel if the lighting grounded back to my keel?

what exactly should I do, or be concerned about? I need some solid advice moving forward and wish there was a hoist I could just lift her up on to investigate.... mask and snorkel is next weekend as I move thru this next chapter.

Thanks

Chris

 

[Christian Williams]

Sure, dive the keel and have a look at the hull joint. It is something to do. But even damaged hull joint caulking, or a gap, won't prove anything is wrong.

The first thing to do is to evacuate the water from the TAFG, where it gets trapped. Quite a lot of water can be in there.

Some boats have TAFG drain holes with screw-in plugs to permit this.

Otherwise, snake a drain tube from a pump into the TAGF and pump it out.

It is OK to drill a drain hole in the TAFG to let water out, if necessary. It is a support structure and not intended to be watertight.

After you get the TAFG dry, see if water still appears under the keel bolt. I say that because it may be trapped TAGF water upwelling, not outside water.

It is unlikely the keel bolt is leaking. But if it is, that's the next bridge to be crossed.

 

[CSMcKillip]

Sure, dive the keel and have a look at the hull joint. It is something to do. But even damaged hull joint caulking, or a gap, won't prove anything is wrong.

So your saying it may it may not be the keel to hull joint.

The first thing to do is to evacuate the water from the TAFG, where it gets trapped. Quite a lot of water can be in there.

Some boats have TAFG drain holes with screw-in plugs to permit this.

Where would these be located?

Otherwise, snake a drain tube from a pump into the TAGF and pump it out. Where would be the best place for this? The holes in the sump that go inside the TAFG?

It is OK to drill a drain hole in the TAFG to let water out, if necessary. It is a support structure and not intended to be watertight. Best location? Mine has holes at each section of the bilge already- looks like factory job.

After you get the TAFG dry, see if water still appears under the keel bolt. I say that because it may be trapped TAGF water upwelling, not outside water.

It is unlikely the keel bolt is leaking. But if it is, that's the next bridge to be crossed.

hopefull, but all thru hulls and shaft have been checked multiple times... water is coming in- that is confirmed

 

[Christian Williams]

This is a factory TAFG drain. Easy enough to install if you don't have one.

A dry TAFG will confirm that the water coming in is from the keel bolt, not ancient rainwater trapped in the TAFG.

 

[CSMcKillip]

Ok, I am beyond the TAFG drain problem as my grid at each location has 1/2” holes on each side that go the full length of the sump at each grid location on both sides- thus my god is open completely to the sump and all water was removed via shop vac and dryed completely. After everything was dry I started to get water to form under the last keel bolt aft. It pooled up and started to what I assume fill under the grid and push water up the sump going towards the bow.

After an hour there was 1” of water in the sump....

that switch that is in the photo was the exact one that was replaced yesterday, stuck in the closed position. I could remove the fuse, then reattach it, pump would turn on for 3 seconds then shut off.

thanks
chris.

 

[Christian Williams]

Hmmm. Next haulout, make sure there is some water in the bilge. While boat hangs in the slings, note whether bilge water drains from the keel/hull connection. It shouldn't.

Some have successfully tightened keel bolts. I think the boat has to be on the hard to attempt that.

(As you know, the Water Witch is kinda quirky. It has built-in delays. The wiring to the 3-way switch is confusing, and I got it wrong when I first installed it. )

 

[CSMcKillip]

Hmmm. Next haulout, make sure there is some water in the bilge. While boat hangs in the slings, note whether bilge water drains from the keel/hull connection. It shouldn't.

Some have successfully tightened keel bolts. I think the boat has to be on the hard to attempt that.

(As you know, the Water Witch is kinda quirky. It has built-in delays. The wiring to the 3-way switch is confusing, and I got it wrong when I first installed it. )

Yes, it has served us the last 8 year... I bought another 3 wire switch to replace it with.. cost 28 boat units vs the 135... we will see how it holds up.

as for the haul out, they charge 400 to pull and I will have to check on dry storage over the winter.

thanks for all the help thus far.

chris

 

[CSMcKillip]

Little more Information

The boat was pulled yesterday and we moved her 60 miles closer to our house to a lake that is 15 min from door to dock... this will be fantastic!!!!

There is a noticeable 1/8” - 1/16” gap between the hull and the keel joint. So I have found where the water was getting into the sump! I assuming a couple of items here...

1. Keel needs to come down, rebed and tighten back.
You all use 5200 for this?
2. I assume for now the bolts are 1” with 1.5” nut. 200-250lbs per stud?
seems pretty high?


the gap is only at the aft bolt- I could loosen, clean, tape, and get sealant back between the joint as well as take thinned epoxy from the bilge side down into joint..

Note: the aft bolt is NOT flush with the plate or hull. That area is con-caved due to hull shape, and the washer is bent pretty good.



solid advice?

 

[markvone]

Chris,

If you haven't already done this, I would pour water in the bilge and see if it comes out the keel/hull gap. A visible keel/hull gap of some size is not unusual due to flexing between the keel and hull. It may or may not be leaking with a gap.

I WOULD NOT use 5200 for this job. The keel is held on mechanically by large stainless bolts. A sealant is needed to seal the joint not an adhesive. If you decide to drop the keel and re-bed AND it has been previously resealed with 5200 you will find out why I recommend not using it. It may feel better to glue and bolt a keel back on but everything needs to come apart sometime later.

The E36RH keel has six 1 inch and four 3/4 inch bolts. The smaller bolts are at the front (1) and rear 1 pair and aft bolt in the thinner section of the keel. Odds are the aft bolt is 3/4 inch.

If your mast is still un-stepped from the move you are all set up for a keel drop. Can you save some work by doing the keel drop in the current boat configuration? I seriously doubt a leaking keel/hull joint will be corrected by tightening the keel bolts or doing a spot repair on one bolt will work unless a lightning induced hole in the laminate has occurred.

Mark

 

[Christian Williams]

That photo doesn't show much for me. Typical joint of keel to hull, usually caulked before painting.

Dropping the keel is expensive. As Mark said, I would want to see water running down the hull on the hard. I would fill the bilge full with a hose and see what happens.

 

[CSMcKillip]

Yea.....got a couple of replies!!! I went up yesterday and took the advice of the yard manager. More on that later..

so the bilge did have water in it and nothing was coming out at all? The area might be so small that pressure is required to have it deep into the bilge. I was getting water? So it’s coming from that spot, or hope that it is. We will see when it goes back into the water this weekend.

So after many trips... 4 to be exact, up my 20’ ladder I found the correct size of the nut. Mine are 1-1/8”
with that said - this is what I ended up doing.

Took a guitar string and cleaned out as much sealant from the joint. I did use 5200, recommended by the yard, so that’s what I had in my box of stuff. I taped off above and below the joint, took 5200 and pushed it into the joint then taking guitar string moved it back and forth to get 5200 coated. I then took a 3 ton jack and placed it at the aft section of the keel and jacked the keel up until joint closed- it was still 1/16”. I then proceeded back up ladder and tightened the bolts as much as I could. I had a 1” drive with extension. I got the aft bolt to turn 3/4 turn so I did something... at this time I was sweating bullets and didn’t feel good so I took pressure off of jack- it cane down a small amount do to watching the 5200 move a small amount from a compressed bead to inline with the joint.

i came home, threw up and ran a temp last night. I played lead guitar this morning at 7am-12 and have been resting today. I will go again this week to look at the repair. Good news is the boat will come back out next spring for a bottom job so it will give me a bit of time watching what happens.

any and all advice welcomed. If I need to go remove the 5200 I can as full setup is 8 days per the fine print.

chris

 

[Christian Williams]

I'd call that a good day's work.

 

[tenders]

> I played lead guitar this morning at 7am-12

Dang, you party hard.

 

[markvone]

Child Labor = Big $$$ Savings

Chris,

How long did it take that small child pushing on the rudder to cover 60 miles? I hope there was another child helping out at the trailer tongue and steering.

Here are a couple of keel dropping threads, if you haven't seen them already. The first details Rob Thomas' DIY battle to free his E38 keel (broke some fingers along the way). The second has more keels coming off more easily.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?5797-E38-Keel-Bolt-Project

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?5970-My-Turn-for-the-Keel-Drop/page2

I wouldn't worry about removing the 5200 you've applied as an external repair. I just wouldn't use it to bed an entire keel after it was dropped. The concerns in the above threads about 5200 are damaging the laminate of the keel stub when it has bonded strongly and that it gets brittle over time and looses the ability to seal the gap.

Mark

 

[CSMcKillip]

> I played lead guitar this morning at 7am-12

Dang, you party hard.

HAHAHAHA.... I play lead guitar at Church! There are 3 services that we play 4 songs about 30 min. per set over that time - and it will wear ya out.

But lots of fun and glad I can give back.

 

[CSMcKillip]

Chris,

How long did it take that small child pushing on the rudder to cover 60 miles? I hope there was another child helping out at the trailer tongue and steering.

Here are a couple of keel dropping threads, if you haven't seen them already. The first details Rob Thomas' DIY battle to free his E38 keel (broke some fingers along the way). The second has more keels coming off more easily.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?5797-E38-Keel-Bolt-Project

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?5970-My-Turn-for-the-Keel-Drop/page2

I wouldn't worry about removing the 5200 you've applied as an external repair. I just wouldn't use it to bed an entire keel after it was dropped. The concerns in the above threads about 5200 are damaging the laminate of the keel stub when it has bonded strongly and that it gets brittle over time and looses the ability to seal the gap.

Mark

Thanks Mark, I will read up and see if there is anything that I can do. I don't want to break any fingers that's for sure!!! Even being under 5 tons of boat with a floor jack Saturday freaked me out.
The Little Girl is my daughter Shelbi - The boat is her baby, she is hugging and kissing the rudder in that photo.... She was very angry that we moved her boat!!

Thanks for all the information

Chris