New Sails

[David Grimm]

Dropped my Genoa off at North Sails last week. They say that I currently have a 146% and recommend going to a 135 being that I plan on sailing off shore. Anyone have any comments on their NorDac NPC Cross Cut? Think I'll miss that 11% loss in light winds?

Dave

 

[David Grimm]

They also recommend a rope luff pad. I recall reading somewhere that foam is the way to go. Any thoughts on that?

 

[goldenstate]

Do you ever feel overpowered with your current jib?

Why do they think the 135 is better for offshore?

Will you carry another (bigger) downwind sail?

 

[David Grimm]

No I don't necessarily feel overpowerd. Most of my time sailing the Hudson River it's 6-10 mph winds so the 150 is fully deployed.

I'm not sure why it would be to big for off shore but they said that the 135 would work better on the roller furling system.

I thought about a spinnaker, I have halyards setup for it but I sail single handed most of the time. I suppose I could go 135 and a spinnaker. Hmmm. Big decisions to make here.

 

[Loren Beach]

Given your wind conditions, I might maybe want to stay nearer a 120 or 135%. That said, we sail in a predominantly light air region and after many years with our previous 135, we got tired of tacking it around and winch grinding work, and changed to a 97. The larger headsail was a real handful in the late afternoon 18 knot winds.

Perhaps you would not want a really small sail for your area, since we find that we need about 7 or 8 knots to really get moving. That said, the E-38 is a light boat for its length, and IMHO really sails well in light air.
As you say, decisions to be made......

Do you presently have on hand a useable 100% to try out for a while?

 

[David Grimm]

Hmm. I never thought to go smaller. I tack the 146% like 100 times some days just enjoying a run up the river. Off the coast of New Haven CT. I herd a mayday call for a man overboard this season. I looked and saw a sailboat about 12 miles out from my position. I shrugged thinking how'd he fall over? Then WHAM! It hit me like a wall, 30 knots out of nowhere! All I could do was drop the sheets letting them go while furling in with exhaustion. Keeps the biceps in shape.

Maybe their sail material is thicker then what I presently have and it would be to much for the roller? Idk. I'm going to call them Monday. Maybe they can send me a sample of the material.

 

[Christian Williams]

I don't know what a rope luff pad is, but a foam pad works wonders for me. Really keeps the draft correct when furling.

I have a 120 Genoa of heavy Dacron. The general idea is that large Genoas are versatile enough for light air and by definition have light sailcloth. They're not intended to be furled 70 percent in 30-knot winds. A smaller headsail has heavier cloth and more appropriate when the wind comes up. Believe it or not, a 120 drives the boat fine even in very light conditions.

Asymetrical spinnakers for reaching have pretty much made huge Genoas obsolete, in my opinion.

 

[Bob Robertson]

We've got a 10 year old North Sails 155. Originally the boat came with a 135. The sail has a foam pad and furls very well with good sail shape regardless of how much sail is out. I won't go back to the 135.
I'm much more attentive these days, but occasionally I wait a little to long to furl the sail when the wind comes up. In very strong winds I head downwind and then I can easily furl the sail. I often sail by myself.

 

[Brad Johnson]

I have two new jibs both North 3DI Dacron, and the have a rope luff instead of foam , same concept works fine . I have a 135 and a 105 and only used the 135 one day racing. The 105 was nice being so easy to handle with very little in loss of performance, also in very light (5Knots or Less) winds a smaller sail is faster

 

[Slick470]

We had a new North 135% Nordac tri-radial furling sail built last winter. North uses a rope as their luff pad. It is actually 3 ropes of varying length that are something like an inch thick. They are sort of soft if you push against them. I don't know how it compares to a "foam" luff, but it definitely furls cleaner than a sail without the rope luff and allows for a decent shape when reefed.

I will say that the rope luff structure makes the sail a huge pain to hoist and flake. It really makes the luff very stiff and difficult to work with anywhere but on the furler, but that is what it's for.

We landed at 135% because that is what our sailmaker recommended as the optimum amount of overlap for a #2 for our rig dimensions and an all purpose sail.

 

[Christian Williams]

Interesting. Some makers put literal ropes in the jib luff to account for the draft as furling occurs. Others use a foam pad to accomplish that.

All I can say is that after three years my foam is still pretty much like new, and has no effect on folding the sail.

At random:

Rope Luff Vs Foam Luff

My second question tonight, queries the choice between foam and rope luff padding. I was pursuaded by my sailmaker to choose a rope luff over my previous foam luff for a new Genoa 2 years ago. In my experience, the rope luff gives a much poorer sail shape when taking in a few rolls in a blow...

forums.ybw.com

 

[Geoff W.]

My Doyle furling genoa (135%) has a rope luff. I thought they screwed up at first but it seems to work well, and is very low-profile. I can't speak for advantages or disadvantages.

I agree with sizing your sail based on standard sailing conditions for your area. For Puget Sound I wouldn't make an all-arounder for a genoa-driven boat like the 32-3 less than 130% (personally) but I do still get overpowered pretty quickly and furl it to 100%. If I were to get a 2nd sail it'd probably be something around 90%.

 

[Mike_W.]

For the 2 summers that we have had or 38-200 we've used the old, heavy 155 roller furling sail that came with the boat. PO only raced and did not have the furling drum installed - to get maximum luff length. Well, we managed to shred that sail last summer on the PH-Mac race and return trip, but do have some great stories to tell. I liked the sail, it had a pretty low clew, and was thinking about pretty much matching it with a new one but now I wonder if we really don't need one quite that big. Are we just overpowering most of the time? Would we be getting the same speed with only a 135?

 

[David Grimm]

Mike, I ponder the same questions. I decided to go with a 120 with foam luff. Reason being that it's made of a thicker material than the 135 and can handle the winds off shore better. I'm having the sail manufacturer fix up my old 146 for the lighter days. Just something else to store in the boat. Ugh.

 

[Christian Williams]

Would we be getting the same speed with only a 135?

Hard to windward in a breeze, a big foresail on an E38 requires the boat maintain proper heel, or you get too much weather helm and it becomes a struggle. A medium size--120 to 130 overlap -- costs very little if any in speed and makes everything easier.

A big genoa comes into its own for reaching, when you can carry more sail. But it is of lighter sailcloth, in order to set in 6 knots of breeze, and therefore overstressed if reefed in heavy air. Today's variety of asymetrical spinnakers are better at reaching than any genoa jib.

To my mind, one size roller-furler jib has to fit all. Changing furler headsails is no fun, especially under way--even for racing crews. Err on the side of smaller.

Regarding design, I had a deck-sweeper Genny, which looked cool. My sailmaker talked me into a high clew. I find it better in every way, not just for visibility but in the tolerance of different sheeting angles when reefing.

Here's what a 120 percent overlap high-clew genoa looks like on an E381. It's 425 square feet, still 10 percent larger than the mainsail:

 

[Filkee]

Last sail if the season, the 38-knot gusts conspired to undo most seams in my 135. I sent the 135 and my barely used 155 to the loft and asked them to choose the winner. I now have a UV cover on my 155 and we will see how we do next season. Generally, the wind is from the north or the south and we are trying to get somewhere north or south. Timing is everything. All my money is in teak and varnish this year.

 

[David Grimm]

My suspicion is that once the 120 is on it may stay that way for the season. However the sails come off every 6 months. I find it easy to remove the headsail at the dock. Now the mainsail is a different story. It's heavy!

 

[Mike_W.]

Even with the 150, old and out-of-shape, I did not really feel overpowered until at least 18+ knots apparent going to weather. Even then it was more a matter of over heeled. Weather helm does not seem to be an issue. Maybe the rudder is dragging to fight it but there is little feeling of fighting it. If anything the steering, though very responsive, does not have much feed-back in the wheel.

I also had never really considered that handling a 130 would be easier than a 150. That and less material means less $$!
I'm not convinced on the clew height yet though. It is important to look good.

 

[K2MSmith]

Just got my NorLam Xi09 105% jib installed today (after 9 week backlog). I was very happy with the install and overview I got form the local North Rep. I was considering the NorDac material but the NorLam is so much lighter and supposedly just a strong.

 

[Marlin Prowell]

I'm not convinced on the clew height yet though. It is important to look good.

I used to think that way, too. For a previous boat, the sail loft suggested a 135 with a higher clew, but no, I wanted a deck sweeper 150. However it required skirting the jib over the lifelines every single tack. Our current Ericson has a furling 135 with a higher clew. I don’t miss skirting the jib at all.