Offer contract form (PDF)
- Thread starter K2MSmith
- Start date
When we bought our boat in the 90's, in Alameda (SF), the seller raised some questions about what she wanted to do about the survey results and their effect on finishing the sale. She and an attorney friend of hers were not educated in this sort of transaction and the deal almost fell thru. Broker was not able to really get thru to her either. I obtained a blank copy of the standard California brokers' listing agreement form (it was several pages) and quoted relevant parts in a letter to her where I basically explained that we were not attempting to take any advantage of her or were asking anything we considered to be unusual regarding a badly-neglected vessel.... and that we were serious about buying it.
Very shortly her attorney stepped aside and we completed the purchase. Truth to tell, we really paid a couple thousand more than we should have, but we had been searching for a next boat for a year at that point. We wanted it, and had already driven all over OR, WA, and parts of BC. Having flown down to SF to look at several, we were satisfied we'd seen enough of the market....
As my friend, Jim, tells me about many stressful parts of life, "It is what it is." He also owns a very nice E-38, BTW.
So check with a yacht broker for the form. They should have a bundle of 'em. While there will be a lot of legalese, there will also be important things for you to highlight. Some of that legalese ('boilerplate') is good to mull over, as well.
Edit: quite a bit of info here, and links to PDF agreement forms.
Very shortly her attorney stepped aside and we completed the purchase. Truth to tell, we really paid a couple thousand more than we should have, but we had been searching for a next boat for a year at that point. We wanted it, and had already driven all over OR, WA, and parts of BC. Having flown down to SF to look at several, we were satisfied we'd seen enough of the market....
As my friend, Jim, tells me about many stressful parts of life, "It is what it is." He also owns a very nice E-38, BTW.
So check with a yacht broker for the form. They should have a bundle of 'em. While there will be a lot of legalese, there will also be important things for you to highlight. Some of that legalese ('boilerplate') is good to mull over, as well.
Edit: quite a bit of info here, and links to PDF agreement forms.
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...we had been searching for a next boat for a year at that point.
I have come to believe that in the distant past I hassled too much over the final few thousand of the negotiation. The right boat is hard to find and the money is always relative peanuts. We tend to be on guard against getting "ripped off" based on doing business with used car lots. A used sailboat purchase ain't like that. Yes, I thought at first I had overpaid for my 38. The owner resisted negotiation. Today, the argument--$3K in a $50K deal--seems amusing, and I have come to appreciate the many small things the previous owner did, and the careful records he kept. Anyhow, there were no other suitable specimens, I had been looking for months, and I knew I was going to buy the boat no matter what.
I have come to believe that in the distant past I hassled too much over the final few thousand of the negotiation. The right boat is hard to find and the money is always relative peanuts. We tend to be on guard against getting "ripped off" based on doing business with used car lots. A used sailboat purchase ain't like that. Yes, I thought at first I had overpaid for my 38. The owner resisted negotiation. Today, the argument--$3K in a $50K deal--seems amusing, and I have come to appreciate the many small things the previous owner did, and the careful records he kept. Anyhow, there were no other suitable specimens, I had been looking for months, and I knew I was going to buy the boat no matter what.
A broker told me that the minimum (around here it's 3K) is necessary "otherwise the salesmen will never show the boat."
I took it as an insight into the brokerage business model. One salesman said he had shown the boat I was looking at 27 times.
I took it as an insight into the brokerage business model. One salesman said he had shown the boat I was looking at 27 times.
K2MSmith
Sustaining Member
I have spoken to a few brokers and some have said that normally they don't deal in the low end of the market (discussing 30-40K price range). I can see why. 27 showings is a lot of legwork for a 3K commission and that doesn't include all the other work needed to close the deal.
Another factor is the lack of available bank loans for older boats such as ours. They don't qualify as collateral, so that restricts to a credit union or other personal loan source, or cash.
Financing therefore limits the market for 30-year-old boats priced above pocket money. The competition becomes newish boats that qualify for XX money down and monthly payments. They're just easier to sell.
One broker friend says that above $50K we should all offer to take back a note and become the "bank" ourselves. He claims there is little risk for a boat that is going to remain local (don't do it if the boat is moving 500 miles away). Failure to make the payments means you get your boat back and pocket the "rent." A simple repo clause puts you in command, you change the locks or move the boat, and Judge Judy is on your side.
I haven't tried that. I did sell a sailboat long ago to somebody who made a $5000 down payment and then stalled on paying the rest. ("My husband works on an oil platform and in two weeks he'lll be back and I'll pay the rest then." The husband, however, actually had very little interest in his wife's new sailboat, which was news to him). My partner and I went to a lawyer who said, "change the lock, strip the boat of everything that you can remove--sails, cushions, anchor etc." We did. The lawyer wrote a letter saying the down payment was forfeit, and made her sign a doc stating she gave up all rights. So we got 5K for the hassle, and the boat back. Was it worth it?
Nope. When I sold vacuum cleaners door to door we were required to have both hubby and wife present at the close. A lesson I shoulda learned.
Financing therefore limits the market for 30-year-old boats priced above pocket money. The competition becomes newish boats that qualify for XX money down and monthly payments. They're just easier to sell.
One broker friend says that above $50K we should all offer to take back a note and become the "bank" ourselves. He claims there is little risk for a boat that is going to remain local (don't do it if the boat is moving 500 miles away). Failure to make the payments means you get your boat back and pocket the "rent." A simple repo clause puts you in command, you change the locks or move the boat, and Judge Judy is on your side.
I haven't tried that. I did sell a sailboat long ago to somebody who made a $5000 down payment and then stalled on paying the rest. ("My husband works on an oil platform and in two weeks he'lll be back and I'll pay the rest then." The husband, however, actually had very little interest in his wife's new sailboat, which was news to him). My partner and I went to a lawyer who said, "change the lock, strip the boat of everything that you can remove--sails, cushions, anchor etc." We did. The lawyer wrote a letter saying the down payment was forfeit, and made her sign a doc stating she gave up all rights. So we got 5K for the hassle, and the boat back. Was it worth it?
Nope. When I sold vacuum cleaners door to door we were required to have both hubby and wife present at the close. A lesson I shoulda learned.
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1911tex
Sustaining Member
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Just make darn sure if you do finance, the purchaser provides proof of insurance from a reputable boat insurer and for an amount in excess of the amount you are financing, plus you are indicated as an additional insured owner, so the insurance cannot be cancelled without your knowledge. Did I mention 25% down payment?
K2MSmith
Sustaining Member
The choice I had to make was either to buy and old boat and finance it completely myself or buy a "newer" boat and acquire a loan. For that latter, it seemed like such a headache after my last mortgage (even as a qualified buyer) that I don't really want to do all the paperwork again... One thing we can be assured of is that an old boat will have depreciated. After getting a few quotes from my insurance agent, I was quite relieved with the insurance cost as well - even with increased liability.