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Optimal Headsail Percentage

Nick_S

New Member
I have a 1985 Ericson 353 and looking to have a new set of sails made.

I currently have two headsails - a 150% and I believe a 130%. The 150% is the main headsail I use but the sailmaker suggested a 135%. Someone I sail with regularly said the 150% might be a touch too big because the cars couldn't come back far enough to get a good angle when close hauled, but he admitted the sail could have just stretched to like a 155%, creating the less than optimal sheeting angle.

Any way... What is the best headsail percentage for beer can racing and general cruising in the Chesapeake area, which is shallow so pointing a couple degrees can be the difference in tacking or just missing the shallows.

Thanks,
Nick
 

Navman

Member III
I also am on the Chesapeake and just received a new 140. I though it was a good compromise as did the sailmaker. I really like it so far and it holds its shape well when rolled down to a 110 due to the foam luff.
 

Nick_S

New Member
Thanks! Talked with the boat's previous owner (who purchased the 150) and he said it had to be trimmed down some to accommodate the rigging. So it is likely already actually a 145 or something in that ballpark.
 

Brad Johnson

Member III
I have a 135 and a 105 with battens, both on fueler, I have been using the smaller sail most of the time with little speed loss but a ton easier to handle as well as more comfortable.
 

Hagar2sail

Member III
Blogs Author
We have a ‘83 35-3. During purchase we negotiated a new Genoa with the seller. He recommended going from the 150 he had to a 135. Having sailed her for 3 year now with a 135 I can’t imagine having a bigger headsail. She balances well with the Genoa with out much if any main, so the design certainly is biased toward a large Genoa, but I wouldn’t opt for bigger than what we have today.
 

csoule13

Member III
Take this with a grain of salt, but on the Ericson 30+ the family has came with a 150 or 155. It was lovely the first time we sailed in 8-10 kts. From that first sail onward, I have loathed the sail with the heat of a thousand suns. The cars on the track do not have the range of motion to properly trim it, it weights roughly as much as the boat, give or take a few pounds, and absolutely beats the hell out of the mast on tacks. And god help you if the wind picks up and you have the slightest issue getting it rolled in.

The boat was until recently on the Chesapeake, and at no point in time would I ever take whatever performance bump we got from the sail for effort it took to sail with it. I'd rather have a dedicated light material light wind sail than to have to deal with this beast again. It should be carved up and sown into beach bags or something useful.

My Cape Dory 27, hardly a speedster or light wind champ, has a 130 on it. I'm on a lousy lake with light shifty winds. The sail handles it as best as can be expected, and is far, far easier to handle.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'm with your sailmaker--135 seems about right. Or smaller. Big genoas are powerful off the wind, but there are a-syms for that role nowadays.

Far as pointing goes, a small headsail probably points better than a 150 anyhow.
 

Filkee

Sustaining Member
Agree. Retired my ripped 135 last season and pressed the 155 into service. It’s a king sheet on a Queen boat. 145 is pretty perfect.
 

Nick_S

New Member
Thanks all for the great replies!

Hope to go out with the sailmaker one day before making the final decision but good to get a second opinion that he's in the right ballpark.

I went out this weekend with the smaller headsail - which actually might be more of a 110 or something, it was small. Felt like I couldn't point as high, though could be the cars just not being fine tuned yet, but man was it easy to tack!

Being able to actually see to leeward was an added benefit, too...
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Another factor from experience, which may or may not apply.

I spent years in Chesapeake summers with enormous genoas trying to sail in 7 knots of wind in motorboat chop in 90 degrees, asking the guests to sit on the leeward side to keep the sails at least hanging. A big genny is lightweight cloth and no good to furl in April, when it blows 25. And tacking drags it around the mast every time. Whereas the Soling we raced had a tiny jib and under the same conditions was just much more at home.

Nowadays, I have a 120 overlap on the E381. The boats sails fine in light air. When boat speed drops to the level where a 150 genoa is required, I turn on the engine. I don't miss banging around in light air. I like now to hear the roar of the diesel instead of the clattering and flopping of the rig overhead.

For what it's worth.
 

kiwisailor

Member III
Blogs Author
The other issue not mentioned with having a big 150 genny is the furling drum has a hell of a lot of furling line to wind up and in my case more than the furling drum could hold so would jam up occasionally. My 135 genny with a foam luff is a perfect size in my opinion.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I wonder what Nick decided to do? I was going to suggest our 97% solution, but I have always heard that there is a lot of light air in his area, so a larger overlap might be better, all around.....
(?)
 

Filkee

Sustaining Member
I once had my 155 on and it was blowing so hard that I couldn’t properly furl it. I’m liking my little 110. I may not be fast but it’s easy to solo.
 

Pete the Cat

Member III
I once had my 155 on and it was blowing so hard that I couldn’t properly furl it. I’m liking my little 110. I may not be fast but it’s easy to solo.
If you race, you know that faster is staying at the proper heel angle and not exceeding it. And reefing appropriately is generally much faster than dogging or excessive heel. More is better does not generally apply to sail size. My experience with furled genoas suggests that erring on the small size is better for overall speed and comfort--I have always been disappointed with the performance of a reefed headsail. My sailmaker friends say they try to convince folks of this but they have a hard time talking them out of the bigger is better thinking.
 

Filkee

Sustaining Member
If you race, you know that faster is staying at the proper heel angle and not exceeding it. And reefing appropriately is generally much faster than dogging or excessive heel. More is better does not generally apply to sail size. My experience with furled genoas suggests that erring on the small size is better for overall speed and comfort--I have always been disappointed with the performance of a reefed headsail. My sailmaker friends say they try to convince folks of this but they have a hard time talking them out of the bigger is better thinking.
Yeah, I kind of backed into the 155. I’m not a racer. Last run of the prior season, it was blowing 38 and I had to get down the lake. My 135 ripped and rather than fix it, I tried the 155 in its place. Following year I tried the 110 and liked it but fixed the 135. I’m going to keep both on board this year. Us old man cruisers can get awful lazy about swapping sails.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
 

RCsailfast

E35-3 Illinois
Our boat came with 3 sails. A bagged out main, an offshore 2yr old 150 rolling genoa and a 1992 hot pink and light blue asym with a sock. Replaced the main, deal with Miami Vice spin but loathe the 150. Too much line in the Furler drum, back winds the main and is tons of fun to roll up or reduce sail when the wind picks up. Oh and the heavy behemoth doesn’t like to hold shape in light wind. We have found work arounds like outboard sheeting, rolling it up in light wind, wing and wing down wind so it has enough air. Would love to get a 135 but can’t justify replacing a sail in great shape.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I figure a 150 should be light sailcloth for light air--with minimal furling intended, just because its rated for 10-12 knots max. Which raises the question, why have a 150 nowadays, if that means such a narrow window? A smaller headsail, say a 100-120, in hefty sailcloth, is versatile and can be furled to 50 percent for heavy air. Nobody likes changing roller headsails, for cruisers it's one size fits all..

When reaching, the asym takes over, and does that better than a genoa anyway.

My new 130 percent is 6.5 oz. Dacron and holds shape well even when radically furled. But if I also had an asym (I don't, at the moment) , the headsail could be much smaller.
 

N.A.

E34 / SF Bay
Hello Nick-
My $0.02: I second all the "no bigger than 135%" posts.

I have a 135 and a 90, which I change seasonally -- 135 for winter, when <10 kts is frequent, 90 for summer when > 15 kts is almost guaranteed out here. The 135 does me well down to below 5kts True wind, and by the time it is no longer enough it really is time for the engine.

Any bigger and I'd have to change headsails more often, a huge pain -- the 135 is way too much for 15+ kts, though with furling I can make it work for a bit, or roll it for that part of the day. A 145+ would just have to be rolled or come down (and be huge to manage when it does). Plus I am already sheeting that 135 almost back to the winches. For me, the 90 is great, but I'm not on the Chesapeake. I have sailed the Chesapeake, and in fact wrestled there with a large headsail that wouldn't roller furl when the wind came up (furler loaded up, and wouldn't turn -- eventually "solved" it by running downwind to blanket the jib, then rolling. Lucky we had sea room to do that, and the wind was low enough that it worked. I have been leery of roller furlers ever since, though I have one.) Still, smaller jib = less likely to struggle to roll it if you are overpowered and getting worried... bringing me back to =< 135.

My one other comment is that I bought my new sails from a local sailmaker who came to the boat and... his advice and commentary was worth many times the difference in cost compared to going to some offshore outfit. If you can get a locally-trusted sailmaker to come to your boat, or better go out with you, it's absolutely worth it even if the cost ends up higher.

PS: I have an E34 (which maybe you have? The "350" is an E34 hull/rig... but maybe your 353 means a 35-3, given the 1985 year. Anyway, in the latter case they are similar size Ericson's, though rigs are a bit different.)
 
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