Port Of La Public Meeting - Tariff And Permit

[Jeff Asbury]

PORT OF LA PUBLIC MEETING TARIFF AND PERMIT

THE PORT OF LOS ANGELES TO HOLD PUBLIC MEETING TO REVIEW PROPOSED TARIFF AND PERMIT FOR RECREATIONAL VESSELS.

I Thought I would move this post to the Raft Up section because there was only one response in the So Cal section. I was wondering if others may be going through similar changes in other Ports and Marinas.

This meeting took place in SAN PEDRO, Calif. on November 16, 2007

You are not alone if you were not aware of this meeting. The only notice we had at my Marina appeared as flyers taped to the gang way gates about a week ago, with very little information. This has been a mystery to all of us that had seen these flyers.

Here's my brief report:

Well I went to the meeting early last night, and I was glad I did. The meeting started more than a half hour late because more people showed up at the Harbor Department than they anticipated. 80 or more people had to be turned away because they only had room for I guess what was about 200. I guess that's why the meeting started late because they had turn away all those people that had taken time out of their busy lives to see what this was all about.

The meeting was lead by CAPTAIN JOHN M. HOLMES Deputy Executive Director Harbor Operations. Mr Holmes first started the meeting by explaining about the delay in starting the meeting and explained that another meeting would be held at a later date so that all that were turned away would have the opportunity to voice their opinions about this new Tariff and Permit requirements proposed.

There was very tight security and every boat owner / marina operator that attended had to empty their pockets and go through a metal detector and then issued a temporary badge as well as be escorted by staff to the meeting on the second floor. Then we were all handed the seven page proposed Tariff to read through. Then Mr Holmes went to the podium and said he was willing to answer any questions. The first question asked was, "Who are you?". Mr Holmes had neglected to introduce himself first. Then the questions really started flying as to be expected, mostly oppositions to the proposed tariff and permit requirements. Issues such as increased liability insurance to cover not only the boat owners but harbor department officers and agents that may have to board or inspect our boats. We were assured that the permits would not cost us any thing but there is a fairly long list of requirements that need to be met before a permit would be issued.

I think the over all consensus of the boat owners was that we already have to meet these requirements with the marinas we are berthed at, and that it should be the marina's responsibility to enforce these rules. This was not a happy group!

Apparently the Harbor Department's whole motivation to do this started when they had to dispose of some 120 derelict boats at the Departments expense. This Tariff and Permit is not something we as boat owners we're allowed to vote on. What I understand is that it is still only a proposal and has to be approved by the Harbor Commission and then go to LA City Council. I noticed that the local NBC affiliate Channel 4 news was present as well so this may be getting a lot more attention publicly.

Personally I am very opposed to this. Those of us berthed in LA Harbor already have had to put up with large slip fee increases, increased registration fees as well as pay property taxes on our boats. If this goes into effect there is the possibility of having to pay for this permit as well as the added expense of regular surveys and increase liability insurance in the future. I also feel that this is just another step closer to living in a 'Big Brother" controlled society.

http://www.portoflosangeles.org/News/news_111607recv.htm

Down load the new proposed requirements here: http://www.portoflosangeles.org/DOC/Tariff_Section_21.pdf

 

[Rob Hessenius]

Whats up with the security

Jeff- Why would they have that kind of security for a meeting like that? You California guys pay property tax on your boat? Hope everything goes the way you want, which to me, their proposal is ridiculous. BOL. Rob

 

[Jeff Asbury]

The Port Of Los Angeles is the largest in the Nation. Ever since 9-11 security has been tightened, just like the airports. But the security at the Port Office was a bit of a surprise to all of us. I think they knew the majority of us would not be happy about these new proposals. It was security like you would find in a Court House these days. Pleasure crafts are considered a bit of a risk as I understand.

Yup, we pay property taxes on our boats. I think RV and personal water craft (jet skis) owners even have to pay them. It's about 110 bucks a year on my E-27.

Thanks for your response.

Jeff

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Proposed Marina Rules Worry Boaters

Port of L.A.'s Proposed Marina Rules Worry Boaters

Here is a up date that was published in this Months "The Log" newspaper

http://www.thelog.com/news/newsview.asp?c=230532

WILMINGTON - The Wilmington Boat Owners Association (WBOA) held a special meeting Nov. 16 to discuss a proposed tariff published by the Port of Los Angeles, which would add new requirements for vessels kept at marinas within the port. The tariff has many boaters wondering if the port has a hidden agenda - one that might eventually phase pleasureboats out of the port, WBOA members reported.
The port had announced a Nov. 27 public meeting to review recreational vessel requirements in proposed Tariff Section 21. After reading through the proposed changes, the association called a special meeting to gather consensus about the proposal.
"My biggest concern is that the port is going to have control over what boats can be in slips," said Donna Ethington, president of WBOA. "What we see this doing is giving the port control over how these marinas operate -- and these are private marinas, so we should have the ability to say who is here and who isn't."
The proposed Tariff Section 21 requirements are part of the port's Responsible Marina Program which aims to enhance safety, security and the environment for the 3,700 recreational boaters and 17 marinas at the port, as stated in a Port of Los Angeles press release.
The proposed requirements for boaters at marinas include: an annual recreational vessel berthing permit; maintaining insurance on recreational vessels; meeting criteria for seaworthiness; providing written authorization for liveaboard status and meeting specific environmental standards.
One concern was the port's requirement of meeting criteria for "seaworthiness."
Ethington, who has been receiving e-mails and taking calls from boaters who read the proposed tariff, has been serving as a spokeswoman for the boaters' group.
"We don't understand why all the boats have to run," she said. "Some people come once a year, for others it's a hobby, they come and buff it out and take it out once a year. You can have a car all your life and not drive it."
The proposal read that permittees shall, upon request, demonstrate or allow inspection of their vessel for seaworthiness by marina managers, the executive director or a designee. To be deemed seaworthy, the vessel must be able to operate under its own power, have an operable electrical system, be weatherproof, not be in a state of deterioration, be watertight and be navigable.
If a vessel is determined to be unseaworthy, a notice to repair or remove the vessel will be posted. The permitee will receive a copy of the notice, and will have 30 days to repair or remove the vessel before it is removed or impounded at the permitee's expense.
Many WBOA members, and other local boaters, attended the port's tariff discussion meeting Nov. 27. Capt. John Holmes, deputy executive director for the port, led the tariff discussion, where boaters asked questions about the plan and stated their concerns.
The port's criteria for "seaworthiness" was a major topic for discussion, and many boaters asked for a clearer definition.
"It is written in the tariff," Capt. Holmes said. "We can get into a lengthy discussion about it."
But many still had questions such as: Does the boat have to be sinking, leaking fuel or missing a door to be deemed unseaworthy? Does a vessel have to be able to go out in the open ocean or just the harbor?
Capt. Holmes accepted the comments and agreed to look into the definition of seaworthiness. He also sought to clear up the main focus of the tariff.
"The sole purpose of this tariff is to give us, the port, a vehicle for when those marina operators and boat owners don't fulfill their responsibilities," Capt. Holmes explained. "At present time, the harbor police can't enforce a lease between a marina operator and a boat owner. This tariff allows the harbor police to act if someone does not fulfill their obligation."
He added: "I have to have the ability to come in and say 'your boat is sinking at the docks, and there is something that has to be done.'"
Other boaters questioned why the port was speaking with them rather than the 17 marina leaseholders.
"If I go through the marina operator, it's a whole different process: It's lengthy, I will have to go through real estate and leases. This tariff is an avenue that I can go to directly," Capt. Holmes explained.
"I can hold them (marina operators) accountable by going through a long, lengthy process to try and take their lease away; or I can use a tool that I have, such as the tariff, and use it judiciously -- and go (directly) to an individual and say 'your boat is not in good condition,'" Capt. Holmes said.
Many boaters asked why the tariff echoed existing marina lease provisions, calling the tariff another level of bureaucracy.
"If all this stuff is in the lease, why do they need to put it in a tariff? Are they going to go back and amend the leases?" Ethington wondered.
"If the port has the power to not permit 4,500 boats in this harbor, then maybe that is a way to get rid of all the marinas," she added. "Get rid of one boat at a time, and then don't allow marina owners to rent their slip; and what marina can stay open when half their slips are empty?"
For those who were unable to attend the meeting, another one will be scheduled. The tariff must be approved by both the Los Angeles City Council and the Board of Harbor Commissioners. No date has been set for those hearings.*

 

[CWM]

OT:

Jeff:

My E27 is hull # 365, yours is 355; small world.

May I ask where you purchased the table in the main salon, and where do you stow it when you are sailing?

Thanks,

Chuck

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Hello Chuck,

Well this is off topic to my post about the LA Port Tariff & Permits that I am pretty concerned about.

To answer your question:

The table I believe is original because I have seen similar ones on other E-27's from the same era. I actually leave it where it is in the photo when I sail but there is a cradle for it to stand upright just behind the bulkhead it's attached to in the head. The table folds up and sits in the cradle with the angled corners facing the starboard side. I suppose I should store it there when I sail but it seems to stay put set up in most conditions I sail in.

 

[Meanolddad]

Hey Jeff
Thanks for the updates. There was no notice posted at the Marina that Regalus is berthed at. It is a small marina on Terminal Island and easily overlooked.
Do you think that they are actually trying to rid the harbor of pleasure boats? I do know that the way some boaters act around the shipping can be pretty dangerous. We do hear the five horn blasts pretty regularly.
When Long Beach was upgrading their docks they did kick out boats that did not meet certain standards so there may be some precedence. We ended up getting a few refugees at the marina from Long Beach. At least one was abandoned after it was moved over. We also have quite a few nice boats that have left other marinas due to the cost increases. We also have a lot of what the dockmaster calls cocktail party boats, boats that are never used or even visited. The owners just like to tell everyone at cocktail parties that they have a boat in a marina somewhere. There is one a couple of slips down from mine that the owner shows up once a month pay the slip payment and never even walks down to see if it is still floating. It is generally filthy and covered in bird droppings.
I know that there are some restrictions elsewhere in the country and maybe some Ericson owners can let us know what is going on in their home waters. Aren't any sort of holding tank Y valve illegal on the Chesapeake Bay and the Great Lakes? Does anyone know if Boat US or any of the other boating lobbies attended?
Greg

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Hi Greg,

"Do you think that they are actually trying to rid the harbor of pleasure boats?

After talking to a lot of Old Timers on the docks, that seems to be the big concern here. This probably won't happen over night but once the Port has ultimate authority over individual boat owners and not just the Marinas it may become a reality. The Port of LA has been expanding rapidly and is always looking for more real estate and they usually get their way. Port expansion has seemed to have put a halt on many of the aesthetic developments promised a few years ago. I bought a house in San Pedro three years ago partly so I could be closer to my boat. It has become a lifestyle I don't want to give up.

You must be at Al Larson's Marina. Nice out of the way place and it's very close to Angle's Gate. Must be nice to be able to just sail straight to your Marina. I have to make a couple of high reach tacks to get through the harbor through Hurricane Gulch once I come in the gate to get up to Cabrillo Marina.

 

[rgoff]

The Captain's position that it's too hard to get what he wants done via the marina companies so he will get control of each boat owner is BS! I smell a definite rat here.

A lot of guvmint people are in their jobs because they get their kicks telling people what to do!

As another example, in Dana Point county guvmint has made the decision that it's best to REDUCE the number of slips from 2500 to around 2100 (for more bigger boats) when they "revitalize" the marina. Very few slips under 30' will be left.

 

[Meanolddad]

Hey Jeff
Al Larsons is a nice quiet out of the way Marina. No social life outside the Marina though. I am sure that the Marina you are in will never be shut down. It is definately the flag ship of the L.A. harbor marinas. Most of the marinas are not in very good shape. In fact it may be the only Marina left if you are right. I read somewhere that Al Larsons has to maintain a marina to continue running the shipyard. It is the last commercial shipyard between San Francisco and San Diego, also one of the most polluted areas because of that. They have been there for 104 years.
Most marinas are upsizing the slips to make way for the larger boats that everyone wants these days. Long Beach has a lower limit of 30 feet. The smaller slips are disappearing all over. Just the american way I guess, bigger cars, houses and boats.
I commute from Woodland Hills to go sailing, it is 45 miles each way so I am envious that you are so close. We bought a house in Anacortes WA, hopefully to retire to, recently just for that reason, I can walk to marina. The commute here makes it hard to just pop by the boat to check on it or handle the many small projects that crop up. The traffic will only get worse with time.
All that said, I am still happiest in San Pedro. I have had a boat in Marina del Rey and Channel Islands. San Pedro pretty much always has wind, sometimes in excess. There is always something going on with all the commercial shipping or if you want quiet then just tack up the coast past Palos Verdes.
Greg

 

[MarkA]

Jeff,

Thanks for the updates!

As you know, my marina is along the main channel adjacent to the Acapulco restaurant. When I got my slip about 18 months ago, the managers hinted that the future of the marina is in question.

Since then, the Port abolished all end-ties along the channel, and they're very active in ensuring people don't leave things on the docks (like dock carts, etc.). Many boats have been evicted. Port police are also crawling over our docks nearly every time I go down there, but I'm not sure why. One day, they were harassing a bottom diver because his permit was in his employer's name and not his own, or something like that. They're getting pretty heavy-handed.

It's not a great marina; the docks are worn, and the passing barges don't observe the no-wake rules. The facilities are stinky and only to be used in case of emergency. But, I can sail straight in from the lighthouse without tacking, and I can usually sail into my slip without needing to fire up the diesel. All this for $360 a month. Oops, that reminds me; this is a new month and I better get down there with a check!