Propane locker gaskets and pressure gauge

[dhill]

My surveyor commented about the lack of gaskets on my propane locker covers, which are necessary for the propane lockers to be ABYC-complaint. The concern seems to be that despite propane being heavier than air, propane could still get sucked out by a breeze (Bernoulli principle) and blown into the cabin through the companionway. My locker covers each have a hole in the center so you can remove them with your finger, so adding a gasket without closing off the hole would not seem to help much. One could build a shallow enclosure on the back side of the cover behind the hole so you could use the hole to life the cover (need to worry about clearance for the tank) or the hole could be completely closed off while adding some sort of handle that cannot be felt through the cushion.

My surveyor also recommended adding a pressure gauge to help uncover leaks, but there is not a lot of room in the locker and I have yet to find a pressure gauge that will fit without bending propane hoses in precarious ways.

I'm curious what others have done.

Thanks!
Dave

 

[toddster]

I can't imagine not having a pressure gauge to check for leaks. It's the only way to quickly and easily check the whole system. I mounted the controls - solenoid, pressure gauge, regulators, branch valves - on the back wall and ran a high pressure hose to the tank.
I'm still guilty of not having a properly sealed (except for the drain) locker, but when a regulator fails, a LOT of gas is released in a hurry. It fills the cockpit and rolls down the companionway into the boat. I've seen this in person.

 

[Christian Williams]

My (rigorous) surveyor didn't mention this after inspecting two Ericsons. If interested only in insurance issues, we can always ask the insurer what their standards are.

 

[dhill]

I can't imagine not having a pressure gauge to check for leaks. It's the only way to quickly and easily check the whole system. I mounted the controls - solenoid, pressure gauge, regulators, branch valves - on the back wall and ran a high pressure hose to the tank.
I'm still guilty of not having a properly sealed (except for the drain) locker, but when a regulator fails, a LOT of gas is released in a hurry. It fills the cockpit and rolls down the companionway into the boat. I've seen this in person.

Thanks @toddster , for your observation of what happens when a regulator fails - very helpful! When you say back wall, what back wall are you referring to? The documentation I've read indicates that the pressure gauge should be installed immediately after the main tank valve, which I read as within the propane locker. As mentioned, I'm having trouble finding a gauge that will fit in the Ericson propane locker. If you have any recommendations on pressure gauges that might work, that would be great!

Thanks!
Dave

 

[Loren Beach]

On our prior boat, when I did a "full install" of a propane system, I did put a pressure gauge, just after the tank valve. This allowed me to turn off the tank flow, and then watch the gauge needle for evidence of leakage downstream via a pressure drop. Seemed like a good idea.

 

[dhill]

On our prior boat, when I did a "full install" of a propane system, I did put a pressure gauge, just after the tank valve. This allowed me to turn off the tank flow, and then watch the gauge needle for evidence of leakage downstream via a pressure drop. Seemed like a good idea.

Thanks Loren,

Do you know what pressure gauge you used? Was it built into the regulator?

Thanks!
Dave

 

[peaman]

dhill, in this thread I described my propane installation in detail, including photos and a parts list. You may find it useful. As you noted, ABYC calls for a gasketed cover for the propane locker. It also calls for a latch on that cover, presumably to keep it closed in event of a regulator failure.

 

[jtsai]

My propane system does not have a solenoid currently. The tank valve is turned on/off at each use. The transom shower is inside the propane locker, so the locker lid has to remain open when someone takes a rinse in the cockpit. Does anyone else have this odd arrangement?

Proper wiring with heat-shrink tubing can offer moisture protection, but can the solenoid be exposed to shower water? Relocating transom shower means filling existing holes in the locker and drill more holes somewhere else.

 

[Loren Beach]

Thanks Loren,

Do you know what pressure gauge you used? Was it built into the regulator?

Thanks!
Dave

I bought it from a supplier of propane equipment that I found in a sailing magazine article about safety ideas for those systems.
Gotta say, I have never heard of sealing such a compartment from the outside of the boat. Must be a new regulation; perhaps just one more, heretofore unknown, reason to keep on using our OEM Origo 6000 range.

 

[toddster]

Thanks @toddster , for your observation of what happens when a regulator fails - very helpful! When you say back wall, what back wall are you referring to? The documentation I've read indicates that the pressure gauge should be installed immediately after the main tank valve, which I read as within the propane locker. As mentioned, I'm having trouble finding a gauge that will fit in the Ericson propane locker. If you have any recommendations on pressure gauges that might work, that would be great!

Thanks!
Dave

My boat is too old to have whatever locker arrangement Ericson devised. I've started turning the back of the large footwell into one, so the controls are on what will be the back wall of the locker. (Inside of the lid is another option, as they will become "right side up" when the lid is opened.) Everything with a fitting needs to be inside the locker. There should be only unbroken hose (no fittings) from the outside of the locker to the appliance.

Note that a lot of "instructions" found on line and commercial units make no sense. They put a low-pressure solenoid last in the train between the regulator and the outgoing hose. This will do nothing to shut off leaks in the propane locker - only leaks in the appliances. And it does nothing in case of a failed regulator. What happens if your regulator fails? You open the locker to shut off the valve and all the propane rushes out as if you didn't have a locker in the first place. I put a high-pressure solenoid first thing after the tank valve. This shuts off the whole system if there is a leak anywhere. The solenoid that comes with standard controls isn't rated for high pressure, though it did seem to work for the short time I used it that way, while waiting for the proper one to arrive.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I bought it from a supplier of propane equipment that I found in a sailing magazine article about safety ideas for those systems.
Gotta say, I have never heard of sealing such a compartment from the rest of the boat. Must be a new regulation; perhaps just one more, heretofore unknown, reason to keep on using our OEM Origo 6000 range.

Right. I yanked a working propane installation because of the unsealed lid, together with several other issues that made my setup non compliant. It was considerably cheaper for me to install my Cookmate Origo clone than to buy all the bits to bring my installation up to spec.

Although I've been happy with the performance of the Origo clone, now that California has made purchasing denatured alcohol a challenge, I wonder if some day I might go back to propane! I've got enough alcohol to last a few years or more, and can still source it from West Marine (at the moment) for $$$$, though the big box stores no longer carry it. (There's a weird technicality that allows WM to sell it as "stove fuel," which I've recounted in another post, but WM's prices for it are pretty dear.) I'll revisit the question later and keep using it in the meantime.

 

[Kenneth K]

As you noted, ABYC calls for a gasketed cover for the propane locker. It also calls for a latch on that cover, presumably to keep it closed in event of a regulator failure.

All sounds a little over the top... a seal and latch would imply they are attempting to make the locker withstand a certain amount of gas pressure from a leak. But, then, every hole cut into the locker would need to have a pressure seal, and the locker walls and latch themselves would have to be certified to withstand a certain amount of pressure. Likely the drain hose too, in the event it clogs. Unless all of the above are accomplished, they've only substituted one potential failure point for another.

 

[peaman]

All sounds a little over the top.

Gaskets work best when they actually make contact with their corresponding sealing surface. There is no requirement for pressure testing the locker, and in fact the locker should not see any pressure, due to the open drain. That depends upon the drain not being clogged, thanks to the owner's conscientious mainrenance of all on-board systems, including the ones which can destroy the boat. The particulars are recommended due to the fact that propane gas is both explosive and heavier than air, and so can accumulate in low spots, like cockpits and bilges. The CNG systems which were original equipment on some boats, like mine were considered safer, even without a tank locker, sealed or not, since natural gas is lighter than air, and so will tend to freely dissipate to the outdoors.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Our surveyor insisted we should install a vent in the highest point of the area where the CNG tank is mounted. For us, in the lazarette. The somewhat irritating factor here is that whatever the surveyor writes, the insurance company wants. And if I think it isn't a great idea and opt otherwise, I worry that it would void our insurance. In this case, not a bad idea and we plan to do it. But there were some other things called out in the survey that I'm less amenable to. Ah well.