Propeller Shaft Questions

[Prairie Schooner]

Can-O-Worms Alert

This is related to our ongoing prop shaft strut rebed project ( https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/e35-3-prop-shaft-strut-a-look-inside-and-a-zinc-question.19649/ ), but not about the strut.

While grinding down the scarf for the reinstall I started to really look at the shaft. It seems to me that it’s off center. I understand that on some boats this was done to compensate for prop walk. Is that the case here, or has the boat been living with a wonky shaft all these years?

Also, I’m surprised (dismayed, alarmed, ?) about how much putty that has been used around the strut and shaft. Does all that the shmutz around the shaft log worry any of you?

 

[Dave G.]

Hard to tell what's going on from the pics. Hopefully someone with a 35-3 will chime in on the shaft offset, on my boat there isn't any offset. Is your shaft still attached to the flange/trans ?

 

[Loren Beach]

Hard to be sure, but is the shaft centered in the shaft alley?

 

[Nick J]

I've wondered about this since we bought our 35-3 and I forgot to look at the last haul out. @Kevin A Wright has a great picture in his repower thread (#20) of the interior.

Beta 30 repower in a 1986 E35 mk3

Last fall after my Universal M25 crapped out I decided a repower was the best option rather than a rebuild (I am rebuilding the M25 for resale in case anyone is interested). Was never happy with the 21hp output in the 35Mk3 when running into a wind or chop which happens all too often around...

ericsonyachts.org

I keep trying to convice myself the shaft is parallel with the center line and the interior is off a little, but this shows otherwise and makes more sense.

 

[TAPH2O]

Same thought of why the off center was it to counter act the prop walk or make so one could get the prop shaft out?

 

[RCsailfast]

yes the engine and drive line are not parallel with the boat, exiting toward the port side. This along with the prop walk and a 2 blade fixed prop made for some interesting dock departures shortly after we got the boat.
3 blade max prop and listening to what the wants or do and needs has resolved that.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

@ Dave G.
It is not connected right now. I'll confirm that it's relatively close today. Though there isn't much wiggle room.

@ Loren Beach
It's pretty close. It might look really off because of the dark area, but that is residual paint. I'll give it a look again today to be sure the coupling is relatively close to mating with the transmission.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

yes the engine and drive line are not parallel with the boat, exiting toward the port side. This along with the prop walk and a 2 blade fixed prop made for some interesting dock departures shortly after we got the boat.
3 blade max prop and listening to what the wants or do and needs has resolved that.

Thanks Randy. This sets my mind at ease a bit.
We still have a two-blade prop, likely original. Maybe in season 3 or 4 we'll get to that.

 

[bigd14]

That amount of filler looks similar to what I found.

E30-3 - 1984 E30+ Strut Replacement- Part 1

During removal of the cutless bearing, chunks of the strut started coming off. The inside of the strut around the bearing was pure pink, indicating severe galvanic corrosion. So the entire strut has to be replaced. I was originally hoping that...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Working on the boat today I confirmed that the coupler parts are mated so the shaft is lined up with the engine. I stretched a line from the trailing edge of the keel to the leading edge of the rudder. Definitely angled.


And, a look in the engine bay it also appears angled.


I guess I was in a bit of a panic when I posted last night. Further research came up with other references to this on the site. Apparently it varies by model.
E-34 https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/late-80s-e-34-prop-shaft-position.7266/
E-34 https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/prop-shaft-off-set.7525/
E-29 prop log https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/prop-log-tube-glassed-in.5946/
E-28+ https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/tiller-pull-to-port.4423/

I’m still troubled about all the putty around the log exit and will probably dig that down a little and put a few layers of glass around it. Or, let sleeping dogs lie?

 

[Loren Beach]

The shaft on our Olson is centered. (data point)
Not sure about your slumbering canines. I might be inclined to build back some glass, also.

 

[bigd14]

Or, let sleeping dogs lie?

I can't imagine much force would be placed on the shaft log under normal operating circumstances assuming everything is properly aligned. Perhaps some minor forces from the shaft rotating in the stuffing box or shaft seal. But I am not sure how one would alleviate that with glass? I bet this scenario is common to most E boats and if it were a weakness or problem area we would all know about it.

 

[Afrakes]

On the 1981 E-28+ I cut up and disposed of the shaft was also offset. One dubious benefit is you don't have to pull the rudder to get the shaft out.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I can't imagine much force would be placed on the shaft log under normal operating circumstances assuming everything is properly aligned. Perhaps some minor forces from the shaft rotating in the stuffing box or shaft seal. But I am not sure how one would alleviate that with glass? I bet this scenario is common to most E boats and if it were a weakness or problem area we would all know about it.

You make a good point. It is glassed in inside. There is some cracking around the putty's perimeter and surface. I may glass or epoxy fill enough to seal it.

 

[Parrothead]

I wouldn't think of it as putty. It's a structural filler made by adding a fibrous thickening agent to resin and when cured it's about as tough as granite. Different companies called it by different names, mish-mash and mung are two I'm familiar with. The fibrous filler varied by company too including sawdust and powdered asbestos.

 

[Loren Beach]

I wouldn't think of it as putty. It's a structural filler made by adding a fibrous thickening agent to resin and when cured it's about as tough as granite. Different companies called it by different names, mish-mash and mung are two I'm familiar with. The fibrous filler varied by company too including sawdust and powdered asbestos.

Thanks for weighing in. The name I heard was "dookieschmootz".... spelled various ways...

Apropos of Whatever, while I usually use the West Systems thickener with epoxies, one time I had a (non structural) gap to fill and used some sawdust from under our old table saw. Worked just fine.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I wouldn't think of it as putty. It's a structural filler made by adding a fibrous thickening agent to resin and when cured it's about as tough as granite. Different companies called it by different names, mish-mash and mung are two I'm familiar with. The fibrous filler varied by company too including sawdust and powdered asbestos.

Thanks Neil, though I'm still puzzled. The log is surrounded by the same stuff I've taken out of the strut mount. It is chalky and crumbles out with average raps from a chisel and hammer. It's not unlike window glazing after 30 years in the sun. I can carve it with a pocket knife. It popped off the strut cleanly, appearing to have none of the adhesive qualities which I'd expect from a resin product. I'm not saying it's not a resin mix, but it's qualities now are much more like dried out putty.

 

[Parrothead]

Having never worked there I can't speak specifically to Ericson's practices but of the four boat manufacturers I did work for, everyone installed their drivelines the same way. Here is a write-up I did on the Moyer forum of the industry-wide methods including the shaft log, strut and alignment:

Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians - View Single Post - Factory driveline installation

Moyer Marine Inc. Parts and Services for the Universal Atomic 4 Engine

www.moyermarineforum.com

 

[Prairie Schooner]

. . . Here is a write-up I did on the Moyer forum of the industry-wide methods including the shaft log, strut and alignment:

Moyer Marine Atomic 4 Community - Home of the Afourians - View Single Post - Factory driveline installation

Moyer Marine Inc. Parts and Services for the Universal Atomic 4 Engine

www.moyermarineforum.com

Your article is really helpful Neil. I've been cogitating on how to reinstall the strut.
I hope there's no asbestos in the shmutz on our boat. I'll try to use chipping rather than grinding on that stuff, just in case.

 

[Parrothead]

You don't have to worry about asbestos. It was banned in California at least 5 years before your boat was built. Maybe that's why your structural filler is flaky. Sure, asbestos will kill you but there's nothing like an old school, mineral carcinogen.