Question on Spinnaker Rigging

[hcpookie]

I’m new to spinnakers, so please bear with me.

Ernesto damaged the sheave mount for my spinnaker topping lift – presumably from wind damage since it was not rigged at the time. Soon, I will reattach it, and “While I’m At It”, I’m going to compile the rest of the spinnaker lines.

Some of the info I’ve read says to run a sheet and a guy on each side. The other half of the info says you can use only one sheet/guy per side on “smaller” boats less than 30 feet. My E27 is “smaller” by that definition.

Thus my questions – I want to go out on one of these calm days we’ve been having and practice a bit with the spinnaker.

1. I’m unable to figure out the mechanics of the 2nd sheet/guy set. One set seems sufficient, another seems redundant… it will probably make more sense on the water because you can only read so much, but I don’t want to get out there and realize I wasted a trip…

2. One sheet/guy set, or two sets for an E27?

3. Do you keep your lines rigged at all times? Seems to me that UV damage alone is sufficient enough reason to replace the lines with messenger lines until the day you use them… Dunno… ???

Thanks in advance for your suggestions!

- Jerry

 

[Seth]

Can I call you Pookie?

I'll chime in. For a 27, and most boats under 30 feet-and some larger-especially those with frac rigs (reasons for which will be clear soon), you only need single sheets-that is a sheet on each side, run to a point as far aft (near the stern) as possible, then forward to a winch. The windward side will be the Guy (the side with the pole), the the other side will be the sheet. When you gybe, go ddw with the pole squared back and sheet eased. Remove the pole from the mast ring first. Reach over and clip that end into what had been the sheet (this should be done as the stern swings through the wind and the boom comes across). Shove that end out and FORWARD. This is now the GUY. As the other end of the pole comes in over the deck, release that end from the old GUY, and clip this end of the pole into the mast ring. This is an "end for end" gybe, and to do this you need a pole that is the same on both ends. The new leeward side has become the SHEET.

If you have a pole with one end different from the other (unlkely in your case), the pole is intended for "Dip Pole" gybes. In this case (you will see this on larger boats) you WILL need separate sheets and guys-but if this is the case-let me know and we can explore further.

The reason boats with smallish rigs (frac rigged boats have relarively smaller foretriangles-and hence smaller spinnakers than masthead rigged boats of the same size) can use the single sheet method is just a function of what is manageable with single sheets. The loads on larger foretriangles require the extra sheets/guys, so you can get the pole set on the "lazy" guy while the load is still on the old sheet-making it easier to push the pole out.

A boat with sails the size of a 27 can be manhandled without all this stuff..In very heavy air, some boats using single sheets and end for end gybes will use double sheets/guys, but stay with the end for end. The diff is that you will put the pole into a lazy guy-(just like a dip pole gybe) and shove it out BEFORE transfering the load to the new guy..But unless you plan on racing alot downwind in heavy air, do not bother considering this..

Hope this is clear enough-I am getting tired today-let me know if not..

As for keeping them rigged when not sailing-NO-they may be stolen, and they will degrade in the sun. Most owners remove the spinn sheets and associated blocks when not sailing or not planning to use them.

Just buy a single set of sheets/guys (one identical line for each side).

You DO need to make a plan to lead the GUY to a point forward of the sheet blocks unless you are ONLY sailing ddw. When reaching with a spinnaker, the pole will be quite far forward(often right near the headstay), and if the Guy is coming straight from the stern it will bend the stanchions, and the angle of the line from the stern block to the pole is almost straight back-which means as you try and pull the pole/guy aft, you are mostly just compressing the pole into the mast (like a bow and arrow). Keep a snatch block (aka a side opening block) on each outboard rail near the widest part of the boat.

Whichever side is the guy should be run through this block, then back to the stern blocks. Once you have gybed, simply open the block on the "new" sheet side and place the "new" guy in the snatch block on the other side before coming up to a beam or close reach. Again, at deep angles this is less critical.
Sites like the Harken site will show this layout-with variations on the snatch block concept (twings or tweakers)..

Enjoy!!

S

 

[Frank Langer]

Seth, is it possible....

Seth, on my smaller previous boat, I could use the spinnaker without the spinnaker pole, and still retain reasonable sail shape, in light air when singlehanding (not very possible to manage the spinnaker pole on the foredeck and steer at the same time ). Is it possible to do this on the larger boats--mine is an Ericson 30+ ?
Thanks for your help.
Frank.

 

[hcpookie]

The reason boats with smallish rigs (frac rigged boats have relarively smaller foretriangles-and hence smaller spinnakers than masthead rigged boats of the same size) can use the single sheet method is just a function of what is manageable with single sheets. The loads on larger foretriangles require the extra sheets/guys, so you can get the pole set on the "lazy" guy while the load is still on the old sheet-making it easier to push the pole out.

Ah OK I see what you mean... makes sense... bigger boat, bigger sail, more need for control. That "gybes" with me.

Yes I do have a symmetrical pole - thus I can do the end-to-end swap as you describe (which some people refer to as a "dingy gybe").

Thanks for clearing that up!
- Jerry (aka Pookie)

 

[Chris Miller]

pole end

just remember, don't ever look down the barrel of that gun! Having the pole point at your body is ALWAYS bad:nerd:
Chris

 

[Loren Beach]

Forgo the foreguy?

A hearty "ditto" to what everyone has said. I would like throw out an additional suggestion for a simplified system for smaller chutes and light air...
That would be to use a "pole downhaul" rather than a foreguy. I used this for a decade, including racing, on my old Niagara 26. Admittedly my fractional chute was smaller than the E-27 or the fractional E-30.

Still, it has simplicity going for it. You do not have constantly adjust the foreguy as the pole goes foreward or back, and this saves hassle in light shifty winds.

By a "downhaul" I refer to a line clipped onto the bottom briddle ring, and led back to a swivel block at the base of the front of the mast. From there it is led thru one or two cheek blocks to the back of the housetop and a cam cleat. This way the downhaul is set once for the selected heigth of the pole and the pole can swivle freely at that level.

Downside is that is heavy air you have not "locked" the outboard end in position in all three dimensions with foreguy, guy, and clew pressure.

If rigging a smaller chute for light air cruising I would probably do this on a 27 footer.

Like I said at the start, Seth and the others have explained the "gold standard" for pole rigging...

Just my .01 worth,

Loren

 

[windjunkee]

For our 32, we run a single sheet/guy set up. I'll admit in heavier air (sailing in 20-25 true) it was challenging to shove the pole out on an end for end with the new guy under load, but I had my trimmer ease the guy so I could secure the pole and then immediately sheet in on the guy.
It was actually a weight issue that caused us to go with the single line system. In light airs, we didn't want two lines on each side.

We run a foreguy from a block in the middle of the foredeck, and then back through a cam cleat on the side of the cabin next to the cockpit. I've been told we should consider moving the block aft about three feet so the angle is better, but we've yet to consider that.

We also use a reaching strut and can comfortably carry the spinnaker at 90 degrees true/70-75 degrees apparent.

Hope that helps. We're still learning about racing with the chute. We recently learned that its not good that our pole track is 1 inch and our ring fitting 1 1/4". Our ring fitting just springs a pin into the track hole and is not screwed down. Under very windy conditions, the ring slipped all the way off the track and the pole was free, held by topping lift, foreguy and guy. While trying to get it back on the track, our driver turned left when she should have turned right and we did a round down, crash jibe, broach. It was ... errr... exciting. We have since changed the track.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134

 

[Seth]

Here is a tip

Jim,

I would think this has been mentioned to you before, but if you are going with single sheets and guys for weight reasons (not wanting to weigh down the clew in light air) there is a solution: In light air, when the clew begins to sag under the weight of the lazy guy, just reach out and remove the lazy guy and clip it to the lifeline. If you find you need to gybe, just reconnect it.


Frankly for offshore racing on your boat, I would probably run the double sheets and guys, and use them anytime the breeze was up in the 15 + range. Below that I would remove the lazy guy until a gybe is called for.

For course racing, I would go wth singles unless it was nuking..

That is all...
S

 

[Chris Miller]

new term notice...

For course racing, I would go wth singles unless it was nuking..

That is all...
S

I love it... I can see the story at the holiday party now, "... so it was blowing mushroom clouds and we started the death roll..."
Nice!
Chris