Questions re: reefing

[Jim Picerno]

My boat has what I assume is the standard Ericson reefing setup with ram horns on the gooseneck which hook into reefing cringles on the mainsail. The leech reefing lines run forward inside the boom and are then led back to the cockpit via blocks attached to the foot of the mast then run through a deck organizers back to the cockpit. There is also a single track on the foot of the boom on the starboard side. I assume this is for rigging cheek blocks but I just tied my reefing lines with bowlines around the boom. When I put a reef in for the first time, it worked but there was a lot of friction in the system. This setup seems less than ideal and near impossible for a single-hander. Seems to me the two best options for improving this is by either removing the rams horns and running downhaul lines back to the cockpit, or adding winches to the mast and doing everything from there. Does anyone do their mainsail reefing, as well as raising the main, from the mast? Any issues with that system? If you’re running a two line reefing system with all lines led back to the cockpit, did you use dyneema reefing lines which might be more slippery, or replace blocks or do anything else to reduce the friction in the system? Finally, how difficult is it to remove the ram horns?
Thanks

 

[Christian Williams]

E32-3 Reefing Mysteries [Master Thread]

There is nothing I want more than to be able to reef my main. I mean, refrigeration would be nice but here I am in year two, more than a little baffled by the subtle differences between the pictures in the manual and the bits and pieces I have found in plastic bags under berths. Below are a few...

ericsonyachts.org

Sounds like you have internal boom reefing. If there's friction it's probably from old, unnecessarily heavy reef lines and frozen blocks. There may well be a tangle inside the boom where the outhaul purchase, topping lift and reef lines share space. The master thread above treats most of those subjects.

Many of us have reef lines that exit at the Kenyon gooseneck, head down to a mast collar block, then back to clutches on the aft cabin house.

The tack of the reefed sail is secured to the ram horns, using dog bones (critical $10 item). In order to keep halyard tension for singlehanded reefing, a cam cleat is installed on the mast to hold halyard tension while the singlehander scrambles back to the cockpit to winch.

I added permanent luff downhauls, which makes reefing possible for one person without leaving the cockpit. Useful offshore.

Lots to this, as you know. But i think with a little attention you will have easy reefing with the Ericson original system, and no need to consider winches on the mast. It ought to be painless, and can be.

 

[AK67]

The track on the starboard side of my boom has adjustable padeyes for securing the reeflines. Per the diagram from Ericson that I have, the first reef line runs straight up to the first reef clew, while the second reef line rounds under the boom and up. No cheek block, as you'd see in single reef line set ups as the line runs through the boom.

I also encountered stiffness and replaced the refines and disassembled and lubricated the levered jams and sheaves at the gooseneck ends of the boom where the lines exit the boom. FYI, in rigging new reef lines, I found the tolerances so tight that I could not pass lines through that were taped together at the butt ends, sewn together only; so sew them tightly and well. My reef lines run back to the cockpit and I really like Christian's solution of separate clew downhauls, but my coach roof is already pretty cluttered.

 

[bsangs]

Does anyone do their mainsail reefing, as well as raising the main, from the mast? Any issues with that system? If you’re running a two line reefing system with all lines led back to the cockpit, did you use dyneema reefing lines which might be more slippery, or replace blocks or do anything else to reduce the friction in the system? Finally, how difficult is it to remove the ram horns?
Thanks

I raise the main, and also begin reefing, from the mast, but I don't singlehand. The reefing lines themselves drop down from the boom, go through a block at the base, a turning block on the cabin top, and lead back to the cockpit, but I have to go to the mast to secure the dog bones to the ram horn. I have a winch on each side of the mast, but really only use one regularly (starboard side) for raising the main. Have had no issues with that system so far, knock wood. Also, I bought new reefing lines a couple seasons ago, smaller diameter than the originals, and they are much easier to utilize.

 

[Nick J]

I added permanent luff downhauls, which makes reefing possible for one person without leaving the cockpit. Useful offshore.

During our rerig, I added enough clutches on the cabin top to add 2 downhauls so I could do the same. Do you have a fairlead near the tack or do they just come up from the turning blocks? If there's no fairlead, do you ever have any issues with the foot of the reefed sail?

 

[jtsai]

For those of you who have replaced reefing lines, what line diameter and type do you recommend? The manual lists 3/8" for 32-3.

 

[Christian Williams]

5/16th (8 mm) is much, much more suitable, even for the larger E38 model.

Nick, no fairlead necessary. A little side force on the luff from the turning block on the mast collar doesn't seem to matter, as the tack is immobilized.

 

[Loren Beach]

FWIW, our '88 model was rigged out with fairly large diameter dacron double-braid running rigging, and of course all the halyards were wire spliced to large line tails. I believe that it was just the "accepted wisdom" of the era.
I talked to riggers and other sailors when replacing the lines, and ended up with 5/16" (or the mm equivalent) for most everything. Mainsheet is still a larger diameter dacron, along with the almost-never-rigged runner tails.
If it was just a matter of strength of the line, quarter inch would be great, but to me it's too small for good grip with hands.
And, the 5/16" still fit the stock ST winches.

 

[peaman]

I have the "standard" Ericson setup for reef lines, with dogbones and no tack lines. The only friction issues I have had were in the mast track which was dealt with by installation of a Tides Marine track. Does it need to be said that any wind pressure on the main will hugely increase resistance to either raising or lowering the sail? Heaving-to is really easy for me, and that takes all of the pressure off of the sail as well as the skipper, so all needed adjustments can be made before resuming course.

I always go to the mast to raise the main, even when I'm not single-handing. It is so much faster and easier than from the cockpit. I have a clam cleat on the mast for holding the main halyard before returning to the cockpit for tensioning.

 

[Nick J]

I agree with using 5/16 (8mm) makes everything much smoother and is easy on the hands. I also found a lot of friction in the old sheaves. replacing those with new Zephyrwerks sheaves made a huge difference. The only 1/4" line I have is our new furling line, and I'm already thinking of replacing it with a tapered 5/16" line to help with feel in the hands.

 

[bigd14]

I had the sailmaker add rings to the reefing cringles. I have dedicated luff downhaul lines led to the mast base with nice Garhauer blocks then aft to the cabin top and I added a small block on the reef clews to reduce friction on the reef outhauls. All lines run very easily and single-handing is simple. Although I have a much smaller boat than yours, the only real effort needed is to haul the halyard tight once the downhaul is set, so it shouldn’t be a problem. I left the rams horn in place. Very little friction with this system and I can reef in under a minute (minus line prep/cleanup).

Here is my setup.

 

[Kenneth K]

I added a small block on the reef clews to reduce friction on the reef outhauls.

Me too. I think reef-cringle blocks are a commonly overlooked item when folks complain about too much friction in reefing lines.

I have a single-line-reefing (in-boom) setup for reef #1, and separate downhaul/outhaul lines for reef #2. Both setups run back to the cockpit.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

I also put small blocks in each of the two cringles at the reef points at the leach to reduce friction at those points. I secured the blocks with a large ring, not a dog bone . In order to pull those lines tight against the boom I need to lower the main a little below the luff reef point, then tighten the leach reef so the sail is tight against the boom, then raise the main tight.

 

[Jim Picerno]

Thanks all for your comments and recommendations. Purchased 2 8mm lines from Defenders to replace the old leech lines. Almost screwed up by not using enough whipping twine to connect the old and new lines. One broke just inches after I had pulled it through the boom. Christian you were spot on with your assessment and I watched with interest your #5 - reefing episode. Couldn't tell if you removed the ram horns or just stuck corks from bottles of fine Sonoma Cabernet bottles you'll have out there in California. I also couldn't tell if you attached your downhauls with a cow hitch or used a shackle. I liked Kenneth K's idea of using small blocks at the foot of the boom and I'm considering it. I have dog bones on the luff reefing points but just cringles at the leech. I'm now contemplating my spinnaker halyards. I have two that run to the top of the mast, and one that runs up approximately two thirds the way up the mast. All three are on the front side of the mast. In one of Christian's posts he mentioned a "lift halyard" but I'm not really sure what it's suppose to do.

 

[Christian Williams]

Yes, the exit block part-way up the mast is the spinnaker or whisker pole topping lift.

You can use a spare spinnaker halyard as such a lift, but care needs to be taken so it doesn't get wrapped up in the roller-furling of the genoa.

 

[N.A.]

FWIW, I copied Kalia (who used to be on this forum -- great guy -- and had/has an E34 like me) and ran my reffing tack lines back. Makes it easy to reef from the cockpit, singlehanded, in pretty much any conditions (up to 30+ kts) I've been in. Awesome. Cannot recommend it enough (and yes, I had to add the expanded deck organizer blocks and new clutches, so it did take effort.)

* Best thing I ever did with this boat: ran the tack reefing lines back to the cockpit. I too have dogbones in the tack cringles, and I used a halyard hitch, since I do not want a shackle banging against the sail/mast, nor do I plan to remove these (or, more specifically, I'm fine cutting the few inches of knot off if necessary those few times I remove the main.)

Halyard Hitch

A very compact knot used to join a halyard line to a shackle. The Halyard Hitch is extremely compact which makes it an admirable choice for a halyard.

www.animatedknots.com

The (two) reef tack lines run through a double block at the base of the mast, then to a deck organizer set of blocks, then back to clutches on the cabintop.

Note: because the tack lines run all the way to the mast base, the tack of the main can pull aft from the mast by a few inches once reefed. So far (2-3 years) this has not been an issue. It does not seem easy to fix -- I tried adding a ring at the level of the rams horn, though which I led the lines, but... the loops of mainsail that form over the horn when you lower the main to the 1st (or 2nd) reef cover the ring/rams horn, and mess the system up. I do not want the main trapped between a highly-tensioned line and the boom, just out of chafe/sail crinkling/damage concerns. So I continue with the tack lines unsecured to any fairlead in the gooseneck area. Like I said, tension on the lowest luff slider doesn't seem too problematic.
[Of course, if anywone has a great solution to this, let me know.]

* I have not added blocks to my reefing clew lines -- they run from the boom, through the clew cringle grommets, don to sheaves at the end of the boom, through the boom (internal) to the mast, then back to clutches on the cabintop. I have no trouble reefing with this setup; friction is not an issue (on my E34). YMMV, but if you have a ton of friction, I would look elsewhere for the fix before adding blocks.

 

[southofvictor]

Jim I’d double check that your reef lines aren’t fouled with the outhaul or topping lift purchases inside the boom before doing anything else. One wrap inside the boom will create a nightmare amount of friction. If the reef lines run fair there shouldn’t be enough friction to cause a headache.
And +1 to the cam cleat at the mast for the main halyard. Most impactful 30 minutes (ok maybe an hour) in terms of bang for the buck I’ve made to date.

 

[Nick J]

Thanks for all the advice. I installed our downhaul lines last weekend and tested them a few times. It does add some friction while hoisting the main, but I think it's going to be worth not having to go to the mast. I'm still not quite sold on not having fairleads, but I can always add them later if needed.

 

[steven]

I prefer everything at the mast.

So I moved first reef and deep reef, and main h'yd, to the mast (FO had all led to the cockpit).
Also removed the rams horn hooks and replaced with lines and cleats. I find his better for single handing.

Heave to, lock the wheel, go to the mast, reef, and return. Takes about 2 minutes without rushing (but with some practice).

Note I said "preferred". I've used aft led systems on my boat and others, and it can work just fine if its done right.
Also takes some practice since you have to leave the helm in any case (unless you have a tiller).

btw, high on my next-season-but-keeps-slipping list are mast pulpit safety bars.

--Steve