I am a new owner of a '93 PSC built E-34. I would like to mount a radar dome on my mast preferably just above the lower spreaders. Does any one have any experience or insight they can share on this? My main concern is the radar cable. I would like to do the install without unstepping the mast. Is there access to a wire conduit at any point in the mast? I appreciate any help on this.
Radar install on mast E34, mast conduit
- Thread starter AlexE34
- Start date
It's common for boats of that era to have a wiring conduit, but after seeing how difficult it was to feed new wiring thru ours for an upgrade to lighting wiring and coax for the new masthead vhf antenna, I do not see any way that a thick radar cable could fit in there. Also, those cables routinely have specialized connectors on the ends with rather dire warnings not cut into or splice into them.
You did not ask, and it might be forward of me to say so.... but I would never (!) advise anyone to put a radar antenna on a mast. What with the long cable run and the difficulties in the install, a "radar mast" on either side of the transom is WAY better. That's just IMHO, and I am unanimous in my opinion!
Is there some particular reason why you want it mounted there? If it's a closed subject, that's fine. It's your boat, after all.
Here are pictures of ours-
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/album.php?albumid=26&attachmentid=15571
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/album.php?albumid=26&attachmentid=14551
And there are other pix in my album.
Happy microwaving,
Loren
ps: good threads here on this question, and here is one of the better discussions.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?2024-radar-location
You did not ask, and it might be forward of me to say so.... but I would never (!) advise anyone to put a radar antenna on a mast. What with the long cable run and the difficulties in the install, a "radar mast" on either side of the transom is WAY better. That's just IMHO, and I am unanimous in my opinion!
Is there some particular reason why you want it mounted there? If it's a closed subject, that's fine. It's your boat, after all.
Here are pictures of ours-
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/album.php?albumid=26&attachmentid=15571
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/album.php?albumid=26&attachmentid=14551
And there are other pix in my album.
Happy microwaving,
Loren
ps: good threads here on this question, and here is one of the better discussions.
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?2024-radar-location
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If there is a conduit, you would have no access to it at a random spot in the middle. You may be able to pull a new cable up a stepped mast using a fish-tape, but only if there is a junction box or something at the base that you can open.
I put my radome high up on the mast, using the steaming light weldment as a cable exit point, and have since regretted it. (Windage, big blind spot.) And yes, I had to cut and splice the cable to get through the deck. It probably causes some signal degradation, but I have no way to measure that. Also, the supplied Furuno cable is barely long enough to get to the base of the mast - fortunately that's where my chart table is - but there's nothing left to run aft from there to more common locations. I understand that modern radomes have much simpler cables, so this may not be as much an issue these days - basically just an Ethernet drop. And there are wireless options too.
If I started over again, I would probably go for a stern-mounted pole or arch mount. Maybe even a backstay mount. Although in those cases, one has potential interference with solar panels or SSB antenna. But it's not a big enough issue to put effort into changing it.
I put my radome high up on the mast, using the steaming light weldment as a cable exit point, and have since regretted it. (Windage, big blind spot.) And yes, I had to cut and splice the cable to get through the deck. It probably causes some signal degradation, but I have no way to measure that. Also, the supplied Furuno cable is barely long enough to get to the base of the mast - fortunately that's where my chart table is - but there's nothing left to run aft from there to more common locations. I understand that modern radomes have much simpler cables, so this may not be as much an issue these days - basically just an Ethernet drop. And there are wireless options too.
If I started over again, I would probably go for a stern-mounted pole or arch mount. Maybe even a backstay mount. Although in those cases, one has potential interference with solar panels or SSB antenna. But it's not a big enough issue to put effort into changing it.
The newer radomes are wireless (wifi basically). You just need power. That helps a bit in the conduit squeeze but you'll still want to run the power cable in the conduit. I am in the process of doing this myself right now, and decided that the new raymarine wireless CHIRP radar basically makes everything else on the market "less", and its not even more expensive. I (my smart kid really) ran power wires for the radar before stepping the mast last week and we will hopefully purchase/install the radome before a possible fall trip South.
Even if you put power in the mast vs. conduit you'll still at least want to have it in a tube/partition to avoid halyard interference, etc. I think, and that means pulling the mast too. But as a single-season temporary thing you could drop some wire down if you have someplace below you could fish it out.
Even if you put power in the mast vs. conduit you'll still at least want to have it in a tube/partition to avoid halyard interference, etc. I think, and that means pulling the mast too. But as a single-season temporary thing you could drop some wire down if you have someplace below you could fish it out.
I would be very careful to read through the manuals before buying any of the current crop of wireless instruments. Many of them assume that their device is the ONLY device on the network. In short - they don't network, but require a dedicated device to monitor them. To look at ANY other data, you have to log off from the dedicated WiFi channel and log on to something else. Japanese Radio Syndrome.
Thanks for the replies.
The main reason for wanting the mast mount vs stern pole is that it is what is recommended by Raymarine. The dome is a raymarine quantum chirp (wifi). So there would not be a data cable.
My idea now is to remove the steaming light and attach the the radar power cable along with another traveler/messenger line to light wire, pull it down through the conduit, install the radar where the light was, pull the lights wire back up and out the same exit hole and mount the light just below the radar mount. Any thoughts?
thanks again!
The main reason for wanting the mast mount vs stern pole is that it is what is recommended by Raymarine. The dome is a raymarine quantum chirp (wifi). So there would not be a data cable.
My idea now is to remove the steaming light and attach the the radar power cable along with another traveler/messenger line to light wire, pull it down through the conduit, install the radar where the light was, pull the lights wire back up and out the same exit hole and mount the light just below the radar mount. Any thoughts?
thanks again!
That may not work, if your rig is like mine.
On my rig (Kenyon spar, Ericson 32-III) the wire for the steaming light goes into a tube that runs fore-and-aft and connects with the wall of the wire-channel on the back edge of the spar. It's a hard 90-degree turn for the wire going from the tube to the wire-channel. So.... *if* your spar has the wire channel like mine, pulling wire around that corner might be pretty difficult.
$.02
Bruce
It will be interesting to hear how your installation goes. Wires might run free or might be bundled to other wires. If you have access, an electricians fish-tape ought to go through.
To elaborate on the "blind spot" that vexes my mast installation: The radar beam on the old Furuno unit that I dredged up from Craigslist is 22°. (Check manuals for yours.) That's 11° down. At 25 feet up the mast, that makes a halo of 130 feet around the boat (260 feet diameter) that is outside the beam. Whether that's a problem probably depends on your style of boating. At my old marina, I'd sail until dark, then have to feel my way up several miles of narrow un-lit back-channels to the dock. It would have been really nice to "see" things inside that 260-foot cone! Of course, if targets are tall enough, they'll stick up into the beam, but even the banks were outside the beam in places. Another close-in application is anchoring - you might want to set a range ring to your desired anchor scope and check for clearance, or even set a guard zone. If all the targets are "tall," no problem, but short stuff may be invisible.
To elaborate on the "blind spot" that vexes my mast installation: The radar beam on the old Furuno unit that I dredged up from Craigslist is 22°. (Check manuals for yours.) That's 11° down. At 25 feet up the mast, that makes a halo of 130 feet around the boat (260 feet diameter) that is outside the beam. Whether that's a problem probably depends on your style of boating. At my old marina, I'd sail until dark, then have to feel my way up several miles of narrow un-lit back-channels to the dock. It would have been really nice to "see" things inside that 260-foot cone! Of course, if targets are tall enough, they'll stick up into the beam, but even the banks were outside the beam in places. Another close-in application is anchoring - you might want to set a range ring to your desired anchor scope and check for clearance, or even set a guard zone. If all the targets are "tall," no problem, but short stuff may be invisible.
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Your advice from "Raymarine" sounds odd to me. One their main stocking dealers/shops is a block from my YC. I actually had them install my new Lowrance hi-def radar on my existing stern post after I removed the previous Furuno radar (old school antenna) which worked fine, but could not differentiate close targets like the new technology digital unit.
I could have gone with Raymarine (they stock all of the majors) but like the way the radar and charting can overlay on our platter screen with the Lowrance.
Starting with the original owner's Apelco radar, that aluminum post has hosted three different antenna's and two different radar technologies.
I did the complete install on the Furuno, and knowing how much work was involved was glad to pay a pro to put in the new system. It took two guys less than 7 hours...... a bargain IMHO.
The subsequent screen alignment was done on the water by the shop owner and there was no extra cost.
Note that the stern post also now houses our stern light. No more light spiling into the rear of the cockpit at night off shore, and it's more visible.
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