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Raymarine S1 wheelpilot, rudder position sensor

P Abele

Member II
Among this year's upgrades was replacing the very old Autohelm ST4000 wheel pilot on our E33 with the current offering from Raymarine. I have gotten a ways into the installation and run into the typical minor problems and questions involved in any boat project and am continuing to work through them without a lot of problems.
However, the one item which has had me puzzled since before I bought this thing, and which looks even worse after crawling around "the dungeon" with the supplied piece is how to install this rudder position sensor. It looks like I need to build up a mount for this thing and then install a mechanical linkage between this and the steering quadrant or some such. What a complete nightmare for a device which was not even included with our other autopilot! Has anyone else installed this thing and have any pointers on how to do it? Might there be a different sort of device I could install which is better suited to connect to my steering linkage? Do I really need to do some fairly precise fiberglass work in one of the most difficult parts of our boat to get at?
Any advice would be much appreciated.
 

Maine Sail

Member III
I used

On our old boat I used stainless steel life line fittings and 1" stainless steel dodger tubing. I don't know what your "dungeon" looks like but after you build a level platform these fittings may work for you. The RPS is a necessary evil but it really does add to the performance! While this install is not on an Ericson the basic principles should apply.

You can read my full description of this install HERE.
57164948.jpg

57164947.jpg

57164946.jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
OK.
After noting his most excellent postings and pictures here and browsing his excellent web site (9 out of 10 points on the "Wally scale")...

By the powers ;)
vested in me...

I hereby declare Maine Sail and his beautiful CS-36 to be an Honorary Viking, with all sailing, rum drinking, and project posting/story-telling privileges appertaining thereunto.

:egrin:

Regards,
Loren
 

Maine Sail

Member III
OK.
After noting his most excellent postings and pictures here and browsing his excellent web site (9 out of 10 points on the "Wally scale")...

By the powers ;)
vested in me...

I hereby declare Maine Sail and his beautiful CS-36 to be an Honorary Viking, with all sailing, rum drinking, and project posting/story-telling privileges appertaining thereunto.
:egrin:

Wow thanks Loren! I'm actually friends with Tim R. and he turned me onto these most excellent forums! While I don't own an Ericson :confused: I find a good majority of boat issues, repairs & general questions do not always specifically pertain to a brand of boat.

Even on brand specific forums, such as this, "outsiders" can sometimes contribute valuable information:):):)...

Thanks for the kind words!
 
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msc1212

Member II
I installed a rudder sensor on my E35 II last winter for an S1G autopilot. The advice I got from my Raymarine dealer was that the sensor doesn't need to be upright or forward of the quadrant. You can install it in any position that still allows for the sensor to be parallel with the quadrant. In my case I mounted it upside down on a bracket mounted on the starboard side forward of the tiller quadrant. The bracket was mounted onto the plywood that runs along the inside of the starboard lazerette (sp?). I cut an access panel into this plywood which allows me easier access to the quadrant and also to the rudder sensor. The new generation of raymarine pilots really need the information that these sensors provide to perform correctly. It's worht the trouble to install them.
 

P Abele

Member II
I am not sure Maine Sail's photos help or hurt the situation more - that installation is beautiful!
I understand that this input really is required for this autopilot system, but might there be some other way to gather the info than a parallel arm which needs to be mechanically connected to the steering quadrant? A belt around the ruder post & wheel device which keeps track of position? (remove arm from existing unit and replace it with a pulley of same diameter as rudder post) Something which connects to a steering cable then a fixed "rack" which recognizes it's postition? A fan array which clips to the steering quadrant then a fixed "eye" which looks at that to figure out what's going on?
I may be spending more time and effort trying to figure a way around installing this thing that it would take to actually install it, but I really do dread working on this in that horrible cramped part of the boat so would love to find a simpler / smarter solution if it were available.
 

dcoyle

Member III
I also own an E33 with the Auto Helm 4000 pilot and havent been very impressed with its performance, and have been told the RPS would help. So although I dont have any advice on mounting the device, I would be interested in your solution, since I will be installing one soon. By the way I kindof like the space down!!
 

newgringo

Member III
Same drill on E32-3

There is other posts on this site on installing the sensor on my E32-3 (which might be similar to your E33?). I think there is pictures too. If not I can email. Many of us have done the deed. OBTW - The S1 AP works very well on my E32-3. Used 90% of time when motoring and occasionally when sailing to hold a particular point of sail. Neat.
 

obiwanrazzy

Member II
Newgringo,

I've read elsewhere that the S1 works well, but less well when pointing upwind (sail trim becomes more of a factor in shifing wind).. Do you find this to be true? Do you have wind data fed in or is it just keeping a heading?

I'm thinking about getting one as I single hand or have my family aboard (which is like single handing, except there are passengers in the way).
 

newgringo

Member III
Matthew,
I wish I had good answers.
Last question first. I have an Autohelm Wind Angle Indicator which feeds wind data into the S1. When wind mode is selected on the S1 it holds pretty good to the selected Wind Angle in mild steady winds on flat water. I find when the wind or waves pick up I have to make the S1 Response much faster and much more aggressive ( setup much different than when motoring=more electrical power too) to catch a shifting wind before the sails do something I don't want. So far I am not experienced enuf with this gadget to trust it in wind mode to go below. But there is promise.
I have to agree the S1 is less trustworthy when pointing into the wind. And for good reason. A small wind shift of the wind in the wrong direction causes problems whereas when reaching wind shifts mean much less. I don't use it close hauled.
Another point. The S1 wheel drive motor seems pretty strong. In winds to 15 knots it seems to power the rudder wherever commanded. In 20 knots there are times I don't think it could hold the rudder in a gust. We man the wheel then.
 

obiwanrazzy

Member II
Sounds like about what I expected. Not a cure for the lack of a helmsman, but better than the wheel lock at holding a reasonable course while I go forward to raise/douse/fall overboard/etc.
 

Maine Sail

Member III
The most..

The most important thing with the S1 is proper set up. I don't even have the rate gyro but this thing really works well even under head sail alone!

I do find that if you just accept the pre-programed "modes" it will not perform quite as well as if you dial it in yourself. Our S1, even though it's only the WP version, is the most accurate AP we've owned but I did spend a considerable amount of time in the set up screens to really dial it in.

We don't have it connected to wind but we have fairly consistent winds and find no problems beating to weather with the S1 or in following seas. Although that's where a rate gyro sensor would come in very handy..
 

newgringo

Member III
I have to agree with Maine Sail. I really do believe with experience and proper setup the S1 can hold when beating and in following seas. But I am not there yet - more practice I guess. Very capable AP. Lots of setup options. For sailing, having the wind angle data fed in to the AP and being able to track it is a neat mode of operation - well worth learning how to use well. Now if these things could learn to anticipate what a helmsman can see coming, that would be something. It appears the best they can do is react after things start to change. How fast and how well is in the AP capabilities and setup. Am I missing something?
 

jsingle

Junior Member
well after reading this thread and starting my own project on a 1976 E32 we finally completed this project in July. WOW. The big issue for me was the narrow back end of the old E32. No way to get into the compartment so two people had to coordinate hand movements to first install bent aluminum stock to the rudder post for mounting of sensor arm and then again using clamps and one hand from the port access to the steering quadrant we drilled and mounted a half inch wood stock properly sealed. What a job on the narrow boat.

After all is said and done however, this is a huge improvement over my previous two autopilots, Tiller Master and Autohelm 4000.

The find tuning options are incredible and allow this to work in all points of sail.

Thanks to this forum for the info and encouragement to complete this project
 
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