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Replacement Rudder E25

Paul Scotford

Inactive Member
Could anyone tell me if they know of a company who makes replacement rudders for the E-25 and the prices if they know them. I had a Problem last weekend heading back to the dock in low tide and ran up upon a small table top shoal and snapped my rudder. :esad: (wasnt shown on maps, alot of sand has shifted during the hurricanes down here)

Thanks

Paul :esad:
 

gjersvik

Member II
Paul:

Do you have all the parts? You may be able to have someone locally who does fiberglass work make one for you. If you are missing parts I can trace mine and send you a paper template. Let me know offline.
 

soup1438

Member II
Rudder material question(s) - potentially stupid

I know this is going to sound like an exceptionally stupid question, but would it be reasonable to replace the rudder with, say, a metal one? Either SS or Aluminum? (All right, so you'd need to have zincs attached quite directly to it.)

Is there something special about the rudder that requires FRP construction?

And, yeah, I can relate to "rudder blues" because it sure looks easy to smack into the outboard's prop... and I have an E-25 as well.

So, yes, it's a stupid question, but I wonder...

(Thinks... hmmm... 3/4in Lexan sheet...)
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
One answer is that rudders are made to break away to avoid greater damage to the boat. I think that's why the internal reinforcement does not extend to the bottom third of the rudder. I have read of rudders that are so strong (carbon fiber) that when the boat strikes something, it tears a big hole around the rudder post. On the other hand, they can be too weak. I know a delivery captain of a new Hylas 54 who found he had minimal steerage in the the Atlantic off Annapolis. On closer examination from the swim platform, he found the rudder had broken off and he hadn't even hit anything (at least that was his story and he was sticking to it.)

Also, I assume the rudder is designed to be a foil, like the keel, to provide lift. Therefore a flat board like replacement (like a cat boat rudder) would not work as well.
 
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soup1438

Member II
Foil-shape and Lift in a rudder?

The idea that the rudder is in the shape of a foil (albeit symmetrical) doesn't make much sense in terms of list since it needs to be asymmetrical for lift-- and, depending upon which way you want to steer, the side with more "lift" will vary depending upon the tack.

I agree, however, in the need for a rudder that won't rip the transom off... and, from the diagrams, the centreboard version of the E-25 has a rudder that appears to run deeper than the rest of the keep w/ the board up. (This isn't much of an issue for me since I've the "keel" version of the E-25 which apparently included the "tall rig".)

That being said... I recognize that one of the biggest problems with *any* system used on a boat is the requirement for maintenance and that *any* single point of failure *will* be exercised at some point in time.

I expect to be pulling the boat for a bottom job in the next 2-3 months; when I do I'll get a closer look at the rudder and see what I'm looking at. (In other words, I *do* think I smacked it w/ the OB's prop and am concerned I may need to replace it. I truly doubt that a sheet of plywood will do the job...)

(Wonders how to simplify the creation of an adaptive foil usable as a rudder that wouldn't fail right away...)

Y'know, I think I spend too much time thinking and dreaming and not enough sailing.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
To quote Ocean Navigator

http://www.oceannavigator.com/site/csrv/content.asp?id=1310


"To get an idea of why that water flow is important, let's look at the job rudders and keels do on a sailboat. The keel and rudder on a modern sailboat are generally symmetrical foils. When the boat is properly trimmed and the keel has the correct angle of attack (due to leeway angle), a pressure differential is created between the two faces of the foil: high pressure on one side and low pressure on the other side - or, a pressure side and a suction side. The suction side translates into lift that helps pull the boat to windward.

A similar process occurs with the rudder. When the angle of attack is correct, lift is produced. This lift helps to keep the stern up to windward, allowing the boat to track.

However, when a boat heels, the top of the rudder, where it meets the hull, can be exposed to air and ventilation becomes a possibility. Depending on the shape of the hull, the bow can also settle, causing the stern to rise higher out of the water. Some IOR boats, for example, had this problem due to their narrow bows. Anything that allows the top of the rudder to come out of the water can lead to ventilation.

This arcane process works something like this: High-pressure water on the leeward side of the foil bulges upward into lower-pressure air. On the suction side of the foil, however, atmospheric pressure is greater than that of the low-pressure water. This causes air to bulge downward and form a depression in the water (see accompanying diagram). If the boat increases speed, pressure on the suction side decreases. This draws the air pocket deeper down the face of the rudder. This process can continue until a large pocket of air is sucked down to momentarily envelop the face of the rudder. This gulp of air disturbs the water flow and can cause a sudden loss of control - not recommended for any boat, never mind one with a 100-foot mast that is blasting along at 15 knots."
 
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E25 Rudder

Here is an idea that I used on our E25 many years ago. We sail on a shallow lake on the back waters of a dam near LaCrosse,Ws so we need a kick-up rudder. Those who don't will sooner or later have their rudder or transom ruined. Well, what I did was to trace out the old rudder on a big piece of card board then use the cut out as a template. I then cut out two pieces of 3/4" ply wood and laminated them together. I just used regular ply wood due to high prices as well as it is very hard to get marine ply in Iowa. I used the card board to figure out how to cut the ply wood to make the bottom part kick up . I had a welder friend of mine make stainless cheeks to keep the two halves together.

I'd send you some pic's of the whole prosses but they are in my home and I'm in St. Louis Mo. working for the next month or two. If I can figure it out, I'm sure you can to.

Fair winds and full sails.

Chad Evans
 

Bob in Va

Member III
Rudder Issues on E25 Boats

The centerboard boats (E25 and E23) have their their rudders transom-mounted on long pins so that they can be raised when the boat is sailed in shallow water. There is a cheek block above the waterline on the leading edge of the rudder, with a 2:1 line running from an eye on the stern to a cleat on top of the the transom, or at least there is on all the boats I have seen. The rudder itself is made of two quite thick pieces of mahogany joined vertically to get the necessary width, and wrapped with two layers of fiberglass cloth. The whole thing is shaped in the typical low-speed foil shape (bull-nose tapering to fine trailing edge) that works reasonably well for a wide range of angles-of-attack. It is relatively common for the rudder to be damaged by contact with the bottom, prop interference, delamination/water intrusion, etc. Repairs are straightforward, and involve making sure the wood core is well dried out. Then if damaged areas aren't too large, they can be filled with a good quality waterproof filler - I like to use "gorilla hair" epoxy body filler, as it adheres so well, is strong, and is easy to work. New fiberglass can then be layed over the repaired area, or if the old glass was pretty shaky, the whole board can be reglassed with not that much more effort. I am currently experimenting with using "LDL" construction board for wood cores for centerboard or rudder applications. It consists of 15 plies of tightly compressed and resin impregnated laminated 2Xwhatever and seems to offer a good alternative to the original materials. It is relatively cheap and very strong - the trick is to keep the water out of it, but that is the general issue with any underwater cored construction. So if you need to build a new board, that route might be an alternative to consider.
 
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