Roller furling use (E34/35)

[N.A.]

I am new to a 35' Ericson (E34 hull, it seems), and have a very newbie question re: roller furling (which I have not used much on boats in the past):

Singlehanding, rolling the jib out (in, say, 15-20 kts True) has been easy enough to do in a controlled way, but rolling it back in has been tricky for to do properly. The issue I run into is that t takes me two hands to pull the furling line, leaving me zero hands to keep tension on a jib sheet. Aside from not wanting the jib and sheets to flog, my understanding that proper furling depends on keeping the sheet under some tension as the jib is furled in.

My furling line arrives at the cockpit near the port primary winch, leaving me no well-placed second winch to put it on. I would be cautious of really grinding on the furling line in any case, but in 20kts wind it can be hard just by direct pulling to get the jib to start to roll in, so some additional purchase would be nice (and/or just some friction from a wind to help belay it). For reference, this is with 100% jib, in 20 kts True, downwind but with no main up to blanket it. The boat sails sufficiently well under jib alone that I am inclined to do so often; windspeed is typical in my area.

I am interested in how folks here are handling this. I suspect there is a trick of the sort that seems obvious once one is told. Suggestions appreciated!

 

[patrscoe]

My experience and technique which may be different than others is to go up in the wind or sometimes down from the wind, sail does flog but if you have wind tension, you are at risk to rollup the headsail to tight. I have a 130% and 150% (summer) but using your 100% would be much easier.
20 kts of wind, you will need to have one hand on the sheet providing some tension on each pull on the roller furling, more you get in, easier it will be so it's a only difficult upon starting the process, at that level of winds and gusts. You are keeping your engine going forward, locked or in ap into the wind. At 20 kts of wind, you will not be able to reel in the headsail and if you happen to get it started, it will be too tight.
Someone else here may have a different method but this works for me.

 

[Loren Beach]

I single hand a lot, and rolling in a headsail does call for balancing the pull on the furling line against the tension you also need on the sheet.
With "Otto" driving (our faithful albeit stubborn autopilot), I pull in some furler line, let out some sheet, and repeat this dance until it is all rolled up. It helps to leave a full turn or two of sheet around the winch and this is often almost the right amount of friction.
Like your E-34, our Olson is so easily driven that some years ago I downsized to a 97% jib with vertical battens, and no longer use the old 135.
It is neat to have a boat that Really Sails.... !

 

[Tom Metzger]

Don't put the furling line on a winch unless the furler manufacturer says it is ok to do, several say not to do it. Harken & Profurl say it's ok, BUT you have to make DAMN sure that there is no halyard wrap or other fouling. The winch is much stronger than the furler foils. I wouldn't try it with wind in the sail.

As Loren suggested one turn of the sheet on a winch provided sufficient tension on my E-34.

 

[Christian Williams]

You can't roll in a foresail unless the pressure on it can be relieved. A full sail can't be rolled in. If under genny alone downwind, head up until it luffs. Which will be thunderous and wet in conditions you describe.

Sailboats have split rigs to distribute the forces on several sails. I'm not sure downwind in 20 knots under full genoa alone is a great idea.

 

[Dave G.]

If single handing I tend to head into the wind to furl in the headsail especially above 12 kts. I leave a wrap on the winch and put a backwards wrap on my spinnaker winch(which is 2' aft of primary) and start pulling the furler line. Sometimes I need to use my foot to keep the jib sheet running true. I generally do not sail with headsail alone though so unfurling and furling with main hoisted. I have a fractional so if I'm only hoisting one it will be the main.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

on my E34, I rarely sail solo but with my wife, we have developed the following scheme. I start on a beam reach, then let the traveler all the down to leeward but keep the main sheet tight. I pull the jib in tight, then head downwind until the main blankets the jib, that takes all the force off the jib. Then it is easy to roll up the jib keeping a small amount of tension on each jib sheet to get a nice tight wrap, just a single turn on the winch provides sufficient tension.

I keep the main sheet tight in case of an accidental gibe due either to mishandling the wheel or a sudden shift in wind direction. I always fear that a slam gibe with the main sheet all the way out can hard the gooseneck fitting.

When I have sailed solo, the autopilot keeps the boat heading downwind well enough.

 

[c.gustafson]

I have a follow-up question, based on Christian Williams' comment above. Just this past Saturday, I was sailing in 20-25 knot winds with the 140 genoa all the way out --- no main sail up. There were a few times that the rails were in the water, but overall the sailboat handled well and it was quite fun. Here's my candid question: Is it stupid of me -- or at least ill-advised -- to sail under these conditions? Candid replies are encouraged. Thanks

 

[Frank Langer]

Just a few things to think about. Firstly, Is your 140% Genoa intended for this much wind, or will it get blown out sooner than if you had a smaller 125% or even 100% for when the wind picks up? Secondly, you don't have the mainsail balancing the rig, so that's alot of forward pressure on the mast. At the very least I would harden the backstay adjuster to try to counteract that pressure.
Mainly, I think in that wind I would have a reef in the main, a smaller headsail, and sail with a balanced rig and sail plan. Sailing in 20 to 25 knot winds is fine, and can help you build confidence, if you do it correctly.
It will be interesting to see what others think.
Frank

 

[N.A.]

Just re-reading this thread; at least as useful the 2nd time around, so thanks again folks.

One thought for c.gustafson (or, more specifically, for anyone stumbling across this thread later):

I regularly sail the way they describe -- big genoa open for the downwind run home in 20-25 kts. Fun, and a lot easier than a spinnaker. Having had a lot of discussion with a local sailmaker over the past few months, I am not sure this is a big issue -- even a 150% drifter of light spinnaker (well, 1.5 oz) fabric is OK in big wind... if you are downwind. Per the sailmaker, you will get scared and take it down before the sail is damaged. Genoa's are much stronger stuff, so I would expect even more OK. Downwind.

The problem is if you head up. Going close-reached with a 150% drifter in over 8 kts (True, not apparent) or so will supposedly wreck it, stretching it all out of shape. Big genoas are 6.5 (SoCal, light air) to 7.5 oz fabric (bay area, high wind), still lighter than the 8.5 oz for a typical 100%. And the larger sail area will result in a lot more force on the sail than for a 100%... so lighter fabric, more force = stretched sail, I expect.

So one reason not to sail with just the genoa in 20+ is that if you need to head up for any reason, you may damage the sail. Rolling it out for a downwind run home I suspect is OK (though I plan to talk seriously in advance with my sailmaker about the limits for the new genoa I will be getting, before I accidentally wreck it). You might do the same -- check with a sailmaker.

Or sail with the jib rolled up a good bit -- probably more than "necessary" based on boat handling, since it is probably lighter fabric than your 100% and so will strectch at lower loads -- and only unroll for the downwind run(s).

 

[Christian Williams]

To roll up a big genoa downwind, just relieve the pressure on it. Luffing a bit won't hurt any sail.

Most of the time this just means letting out the sheet until it luffs.

A genoa on a whisker pole, dead downwind in 35 knots, is furled the same way. Let out the sheet until the furling line can he drawn in without undue force. I don't use a winch on the furler in any conditions.

As a practical matter, it's a good idea to reduce foresail early, because it's a bear to roll in a full genny in a heavy squall. It luffs thunderously and shakes the whole rig, but you can still do it by hand. In heavy conditions heading up is not an attractive option since it puts the boat on its ear.