Rudder post question?

[Rick R.]

While sailing today, I thought I would remove the emergency tiller deck plate to try and determine what the slight binding we've heard steering since buying our boat 2100 nautical miles ago. When I removed the deck plate with the key, I noticed that the rubber o ring that is supposed to seal the deck plate from leaking rainwater from the cockpit was damaged and needs replaced

Does anyone know the size and a source for this?

Also noticed that when we steer the ruder post does not stay in the center (looking down on it). But moves slightly side to side. Is there a shim or bearing that I should check?

Thanks
Rick

 

[Christian Williams]

Rick,

Check the nuts that hold the upper bearing housing in place--the nuts are under the deck above the quadrant/radial. If they're loose, the upper bearing housing moves and the post wobbles. Such movement is invisible from the cockpit.

Tightening the nuts takes two people, one in cockpit and one underneath.

While down there, grasp the rudder post and push-pull laterally as hard as you can. If the post moves sideways, does the upper bearing housing move with it?

If so, simply tightening the nuts is the cure. And adding some lock washers, which mine didn't have.

 

[Rick R.]

Thanks Christian!

i thought I remembered you posting this a while ago but I couldn't find it. The deck plate Philips head screws are very loose in the cockpit.

Did you have an o ring under the deck plate?

 

[Christian Williams]

If those Phillips heads in the cockpit turn without effort, I'll bet you will solve the entire problem in five minutes. This is the one where I hired a mechanic to diagnose my wobble problem, expecting to have to haul out, pull the rudder, replace bearings and so on.

I missed it because I didn't realize the Phillips heads held the entire under-deck collar fitting in place. I assumed they were just securing the deck plate and had no grander function.

 

[Loren Beach]

If those Phillips heads in the cockpit turn without effort, I'll bet you will solve the entire problem in five minutes. This is the one where I hired a mechanic to diagnose my wobble problem, expecting to have to haul out, pull the rudder, replace bearings and so on.

I missed it because I didn't realize the Phillips heads held the entire under-deck collar fitting in place. I assumed they were just securing the deck plate and had no grander function.

Further...
When we recently pulled those four large screws out and re-bedded them we stopped a pesky leak that started last winter. Water had been showing up under the engine, and then working its way forward. After some "csi" work back inside the stern, I found water collecting inside the top of the quadrant casting -- dripping down from those bolts.

As for the old O-ring, you might (carefully!) measure the diameter and circumference and have a look at the large McMaster Carr site.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#o-rings/=q845ev

Loren

 

[Rick R.]

Thanks so much guys!

I forgot to mention, as crazy as it sounds, today was the first day in 2.5 years we sailed our boat without the Bimini. What a wonderful experience!

These boats look so much better without the top!

 

[Dan Callen]

Rudder Post

If those Phillips heads in the cockpit turn without effort, I'll bet you will solve the entire problem in five minutes. This is the one where I hired a mechanic to diagnose my wobble problem, expecting to have to haul out, pull the rudder, replace bearings and so on.

I missed it because I didn't realize the Phillips heads held the entire under-deck collar fitting in place. I assumed they were just securing the deck plate and had no grander function.

Christian- That is good info. as I would have never thought to check those bolts. Years ago I had a bind in my steering and could actually feel the vibration when standing on the cap in the cockpit. It is critical to keep the upper bearing greased as that eliminated the problem. I actually grease the upper and lower at least annually. If someone comes up with the correct size of the O ring, it would be nice to post that info. Thanks for the info. Dan Callen Ericson 32-3 Andiamo

 

[Rick R.]

Christian- That is good info. as I would have never thought to check those bolts. Years ago I had a bind in my steering and could actually feel the vibration when standing on the cap in the cockpit. It is critical to keep the upper bearing greased as that eliminated the problem. I actually grease the upper and lower at least annually. If someone comes up with the correct size of the O ring, it would be nice to post that info. Thanks for the info. Dan Callen Ericson 32-3 Andiamo

Dan I am going to measure for the o-ring when back at the boat Tuesday tightening the bolts Christian mentioned.

The cap says 4 so maybe it's a four inch cap? While underway yesterday, I used Teflon tape on the threads to help seal it from the rain we are expecting today.

 

[Rick R.]

Didn't have time to tighten the deck screws today but did measure the hole. It appears to be 4 2/16". I'm going to order a couple sizes of o rings to see what works. Great 2.5 hour sail today with the Admiral!

Thursday we start the projects : new ports, outboard hoist, tighten rudder post.

 

[Ryan L]

While sailing today, I thought I would remove the emergency tiller deck plate to try and determine what the slight binding we've heard steering since buying our boat 2100 nautical miles ago. When I removed the deck plate with the key, I noticed that the rubber o ring that is supposed to seal the deck plate from leaking rainwater from the cockpit was damaged and needs replaced

Does anyone know the size and a source for this?

Also noticed that when we steer the ruder post does not stay in the center (looking down on it). But moves slightly side to side. Is there a shim or bearing that I should check?

Thanks
Rick

Not sure this will help but on our 38-200 I replaced that o-ring with one from a Groco sea strainer spares kit.

 

[Rick R.]

Not sure this will help but on our 38-200 I replaced that o-ring with one from a Groco sea strainer spares kit.

Thanks Ryan!

I will check that and see if it fits.

Wonder if the teflon tape I put on the threads will seal it?

 

[Ryan L]

Thanks Ryan!

I will check that and see if it fits.

Wonder if the teflon tape I put on the threads will seal it?

My guess is not without the o-ring but there's one sure way to find out! By the way, I drained our post with this drill pump- http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...ngId=-1&searchKeyword=drill+pump#.UtY2ZmRDuYU

The pump is amazing. Aside from draining water it makes oil changes super easy.

Good luck!

 

[Tom Metzger]

I drained our post with this drill pump- http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs...p#.UtY2ZmRDuYU

$53!!!! :0

You can Google "drill pump" and find dozens of them for less than 1/4 of that amount. Look in any hardware store.

That said, I've never had that much luck with that kind of pump.

 

[Ryan L]

$53!!!! :0

You can Google "drill pump" and find dozens of them for less than 1/4 of that amount. Look in any hardware store.

That said, I've never had that much luck with that kind of pump.

I agree $53 is a bit steep. Thankfully they're somewhat less with my Port Supply discount...

It's off topic but I'm curious why you didn't have luck with them? I find they work so well I purchased another (one for fuel/oil, one for water).

 

[Alan Gomes]

$53!!!! :0

You can Google "drill pump" and find dozens of them for less than 1/4 of that amount. Look in any hardware store.

That said, I've never had that much luck with that kind of pump.

http://www.harborfreight.com/heavy-duty-drill-powered-pump-98384.html

 

[Tom Metzger]

I agree $53 is a bit steep. Thankfully they're somewhat less with my Port Supply discount...

It's off topic but I'm curious why you didn't have luck with them? I find they work so well I purchased another (one for fuel/oil, one for water).

No recollection at all as it was probably at least 25 years ago. I would assume it had an air leak, probably in the hose connection. Garden hoses aren't designed for suction.

The pump Alan mentioned has hose barbs in addition to garden hose connections.

 

[Ryan L]

No recollection at all as it was probably at least 25 years ago. I would assume it had an air leak, probably in the hose connection. Garden hoses aren't designed for suction.

The pump Alan mentioned has hose barbs in addition to garden hose connections.

Ah, got it. Maybe it was a different pump? I'm not sure a garden hose would even easily fit on the one in the link I sent? Usually I use one of the semi-rigid small diameter hoses that come with the pump. To keep this relevant that's the hose I used to easily drain the space inside the rudder post. It's also useful for getting to water in spaces under the TAFG.

 

[Rick R.]

It worked!

Thanks Christian for the info on tightening the bolts. I discovered that three were actually broken so now we have the plate rebedded with butyl and four new bolts with lock washers! No more lateral movement!
Rick

I also discovered that the o ring is still there on the male end of the plate. Doh!:0

 

[Fparry]

Rick
I tried to reply to your message but your box if full. Clean it out and I'll re send

Fred

 

[Rick R.]

Rick
I tried to reply to your message but your box if full. Clean it out and I'll re send

Fred

All clear Fred! Now about those Bills, maybe next year...lol!