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Sanitation System Questions

ChrisS

Member III
I finally got up enough gumption to rip out the old Kracor recirculating tank and hoses. A roll of duck tape, a box of heavy duty latex gloves, a can of bleach wipes, and stack my daughter's size 3 diapers came in handy to make this a stinky but tolerable job (the hoses were rank!). While I was hoping to find a wad of $100 bills under the old tank, no such luck.

So now I am considering all the options for builing a new system, and I have a few questions:

1) I am thinking of following the WM "favorite" system with no Y valve, just going straight to the tank. Any reason to stay with the Y valve situation?

2) I want to be able to pump the tank out at sea. Does anybody have any feedback on manual pumps, or macerators? Any best models?

3) Do a need a vented loop on the discharge line to the thru hull if I only have the seacock open when using the pump?

4) Is it best to have two discharge openings in the tank, or one with a Y valve to deck and thru hull fittings?

Any other wisdom greatly appreciated. Thanks!
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Head system decisions.

Chris, (1.) The vented loop should be between the head and the holding tank, none is needed between the tank and the seacock because in accordance with USCG regulations the seacock should always be closed except when in use. My holding tank is under the V-berth directly through the bulkhead separating it from the head and I have a 1 1/2" Groco vented loop under there as high as is practicable and as close to the center line of the boat as can be. The beauty of that of choosing that all cast bronze brand is that it has a bronze screw top with the valve in it that can be easily removed for cleaning if needed but I have to say that in the 10+ years it's been there, it's never even been remotely clogged upon inspection. That's the good news, the bad news is that they're pretty pricey but the pain is short lived and for years thereafter you'll derive comfort from the knowledge that you've bought quality equipment should you decide to get one. 1. There really is no reason for the Y-valve that I can think of, especially the plastic ones that tend to have weak handles which can and do snap off at the worst time. Why fit one when it's not needed is my thought? Talk about unnecessary and pricey!! As to waste liquids settling between the T-fitting and the seacock, the use of Odorlos totally solves that problem. 2. I really can't help with recommending manual over electric pumps. But if choosing a macerator, take into consideration the labor and cost of running substantial sized conductors from your battery buss bars to the head. As I recall, the cost of the wire alone equalled or exceeded that of the macerator but I could be wrong, it was a long time ago. 3. Answered above. By the way, by simply removing the handle from the closed seacock, I met the USCG standard of disabling or locking it closed according to them. Mine is tied to a tether around the seacock body and normally resides in the bilge except when retrieved for use in briefly opening and then closing it at sea. 4. Apply the KISS principle here, one discharge and no Y-valves anywhere will be just fine. FYI, check with Ronco Plastics for a new holding tank. Send them an isometric drawing of where you want fittings located (consider an inspection port installed by them too) and it can all be done by phone and fax, http://www.ronco-plastics.com/ or Phone: 714-259-1385, Fax:714-259-0759. Good luck and keep us all posted. Happy Holidays, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

mherrcat

Contributing Partner
The vented loop should be between the head and the holding tank...

All the drawings I have seen show vented loops in the intake line to the head and in the discharge line to the seacock. Why have one between the head and the holding tank?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
We did not have any vented loops in the head system on the prior boat for a decade, and none were standard in our Ericson Yacht. After the reformat of the tank and hoses (pictures elsewhere on this site), I stayed the course and still am "loop free."
Please do not tell the Loop Police.
We do, however, close all the related thru hull valves any time we are off the boat.

Loren
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Where to place a vented loop.

You may well have seen a vented plumbed between the tank and the seacock but I'd have to imagine that those sources you've seen predate USCG the requirement that the seacock be closed except when in use. Think about it, what possible good could come from having a loop there with the seacock open and waste being discharged or afterwards, the seacock closed? Before those regulations came into being a vented loop there would make all kinds of sense to prevent ocean water siphoning in and possibly sinking the boat. The vented loop between the head discharge and the holding tank in our boat is to prevent waste from feeding back into the head and overflowing it all over the place, yuck!! I didn't mention it before but I also have a 3/4" Groco vented loop between the raw water intake seacock and my Groco K-H toilet. It too is located as close as possible to the centerline of the boat and hidden in the head behind a bath towel on a hook at about chest height when standing. In order to flush the toilet one needs to cover the vent hole with a finger because the loop is being used backwards from its design. Water is being PULLED past the loop anti-siphon vent, not being PUSHED past it so the valve never closes when that vacuum is being pulled. Two separate E31's with identical Groco K-H heads acted entirely differently without that vented loop. Hull #33 allowed raw sea water to fill the bowl and run over because the outside water line is about 1/4"-1/2" higher than the toilet rim. On the other hand in hull #55, our boat, the water line is about 1/4"-1/2" below the rim of the bowl. In either case, that's way too close for comfort, thus I installed the elevated vented loop in both boats, hull #33 at the owners request that I make his just like mine. Over a two week period he left the boat, not "remembering" to close the seacock after using the head, only to return within an hour to find the cabin sole awash both times. So by merely removing a finger from that loop vent, the water level settles down safely in the hose beside the toilet and the likelihood of a sinking is reduced to a fraction of a per cent from that source. This help? Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

chaco

Member III
The Head Options

1. Go Marelon Y Valve (NOT JABSCO) so you can flush direct to tank OR overboard. Pumping out of a tank when you don't need to is a PAIN
2. Go Whale Manual Tank PumpOut. Macerators are unreliable if not used Weekly
3. Always install a Vented Loop in ALL your Discharge Below Water Line !
4. (1) Discharge is best to prevent possible leaks
 

Matey

Member III
How goes the tank ?

Hey Chris,

I've headed down the same road. I tore out my Mansfield TDX. Wished I'd remembered your diaper idea .. I have room under the v-berth, port side. Your location has my speedo thru-hull. I'm looking at a new head ( I have'nt decided on a vented loop or rise in the hose) straight to the Ronco B-238 (14 gal) with a Y out to a manual pump and the thru-hull one way and deck pump out the other. A couple questions for you ..
  1. Is your fresh water fill along the fwd head bukhead ?
  2. Where are you routing the pump-out hose ? Same side ?
  3. How will you check the level ? :cool:
  4. What hose are you using ? $$
I'll be interested in your progress

Regards, Greg
 
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