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Scenario Planning: Hulled

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Sailing along in the dark, bump crunch, water starts welling up from the floorboards.

You can't tell exactly where the water is coming from, but it's rising from the bilge, which means there is a good chance some portion of the failure is beneath the TAFG.

Accessing the underside of the TAFG is essentially impossible under duress. (Like, do you have a waterproof battery powered hole saw and skil saw handy 24/7?

The only way to stem the flow would be to try to get some membrane on the outside of the hull. Using a sail, perhaps?

Any other good ideas? I am contemplating getting a roll of bituthene to bring offshore:


Though I don't know if it would adhere to a slippery hull, and of course the problem of jumping off the boat and applying it also presents a problem. Perhaps it is just folly.
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Sailing along in the dark, bump crunch, water starts welling up from the floorboards.

You can't tell exactly where the water is coming from, but it's rising from the bilge, which means there is a good chance some portion of the failure is beneath the TAFG.

Accessing the underside of the TAFG is essentially impossible under duress. (Like, do you have a waterproof battery powered hole saw and skil saw handy 24/7?

The only way to stem the flow would be to try to get some membrane on the outside of the hull. Using a sail, perhaps?

Any other good ideas? I am contemplating getting a roll of bituthene to bring offshore:


Though I don't know if it would adhere to a slippery hull, and of course the problem of jumping off the boat and applying it also presents a problem. Perhaps it is just folly.
A sail might take too long to deploy. I always carry a 4 foot by 6 foot poly tarp which always has lines attached to the four corners. My intent would be to slide it down from the bow while holding the lines then tieing the lines on deck, likely to lifelines initially, later to something more solid. I think it's most likely that a penetrating hole will be near the bow, so the tarp would cover it, with water pressure and the lines holding it in place, while I tried to think about other possible repairs.
Frank
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
In my thinking, it's always about the odds of any particular leak. The most common place will be a preexisting opening in the hull, like a thruhull or prop shaft. Then there are the instrument transducers. Once found, and that's key, these can be plugged from inside. Hopefully. Perhaps.

If you hit something solid *hard enough* you might get a fracture or crack. That could produce anything from nuisance water to enough to really challenge all of your pumps.

Last on my worry list is an actual "hole" from a sharp solid object. In our area that might be a sharp or jagged tip of a "dead head" log or even the corner of an abandoned container. The % chance, going from the first thing on my list to the last, drops considerably.
And if you actually get holed and it's letting in many gallons per minutes, there may not be enough time from first notice to getting to full "damage control" mode.

You cannot rule out any possible water ingress, but you can prepare for everything short of the challenge that requires either your lift raft or a gasoline dewatering pump dropped from a chopper.

Jus my thoughts, from a lot of short deliveries, and probably only 3% of the nights at seas that Christian has put in. Others here have real offshore miles and well earned opinions......

And we do carry an inspected life raft. (Like carrying an umbrella to ward off rain..)
:(
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I carry thin and thick plywood, a saw, and several boxes of drywall screws. Cut plywood to shape, drill pilot holes, screw over breach. Two electric drills aboard. "Splash Zone" emergency epoxy. 2x2 piece of latex cloth for DSS issue.

Our hulls are pretty tough, and we'll probably bounce off, and there's really nothing to hit out there, statistically at least. So for me it's all peace of mind, whatever that is.
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I carry thin and thick plywood, a saw, and several boxes of drywall screws. Cut plywood to shape, drill pilot holes, screw over breach. Two electric drills aboard. "Splash Zone" emergency epoxy. 2x2 piece of latex cloth for DSS issue.

Our hulls are pretty tough, and we'll probably bounce off, and there's really nothing to hit out there, statistically at least. So for me it's all peace of mind, whatever that is.
How will you screw plywood over a hole that’s underwater? Won’t the TAFG block access from within?
 

feli

New Member
Hello All!
First post but been a curtain twitcher for some time. I know... Weirdo!
Was thinking of this very scenario a few days ago.
Water against a hull has some psi value right? It's really low I guess.
So there's bound to be a sheet of film, 2x4 or 4x4sf or whatever, that sticks when applied to a wet fiberglass hull and rolled over a hole that will slow or stop water ingress, but is still easy to apply. Cut to size even. cling film type?
Yes you Have to jump in and save the day.... and your boat.
Then again, I'm a greenhorn so what do I know.
Great site by the way!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Yes you Have to jump in and save the day.... and your boat.

To quote Feli, yeah I think you do have to jump in. The TAFG makes interior fix unlikely. I figure the odds are very low, but the plywood could be an exterior patch if some collision makes a hole in the topsides. In the odd "All is Lost" movie, Robert Redford's character hung from a halyard to work a topside fix. Maybe that would work--in a flat calm. There is stuff out there to hit--more of it coastwise than far offshore. Channel markers, buoys, cigarette boats. It might happen.

It's the very remote chance of being rolled that my stuff is really for. Being rolled often means crushed cabin house, split deck, topside punctured by a shattered mast, hatches torn away. I have probably read the Smeetons too many times. With good weather forecasting we are able to avoid such monster conditions unless taking on Cape Horn, but it's a good feeling to at least have a plan. There's very little in the way of reinforcement stuff in a sailboat unless intentionally brought along. If a hatch blew off, what we we use to close it? Construction materials are handy.

I don't worry about actually using my load of junk at all. Zero. All I worry about is hurricanes, and getting out of the way before I need the plywood.
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Hello All!
First post but been a curtain twitcher for some time. I know... Weirdo!
Was thinking of this very scenario a few days ago.
Water against a hull has some psi value right? It's really low I guess.
So there's bound to be a sheet of film, 2x4 or 4x4sf or whatever, that sticks when applied to a wet fiberglass hull and rolled over a hole that will slow or stop water ingress, but is still easy to apply. Cut to size even. cling film type?
Yes you Have to jump in and save the day.... and your boat.
Then again, I'm a greenhorn so what do I know.
Great site by the way!
This is the same concept as the bituthene membrane I proposed in my first message.

Seems totally unrealistic in the middle of the night in an angry ocean, but better to have on the off chance….
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Hello All!
First post but been a curtain twitcher for some time. I know... Weirdo!
...

Welcome to the forum!

...
So there's bound to be a sheet of film, 2x4 or 4x4sf or whatever, that sticks when applied to a wet fiberglass hull ...

Good in theory but not much sticks well to ablative bottom paint - which is the whole idea of the paint in the first place. Plus the real the problem is that after days or weeks in the water the hull will have enough slime that nothing will stick to it.
 

Mr. Scarlett

Member III
If the damage is not too far aft, the tarp trick (I know it as a crash mat) works very well, but you must maintain forward motion.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
In my opinion, if holed below the waterline, you sink. I can't readily imagine how such specific damage would happen, but the prospect of getting out emergency gear and rigging it while taking on a gallon a second is, well....

Better to think through the emergency life raft drill, and the communications required.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Link to the testing done by YM on a hull in the UK.
There is another Part 2, of this also.

They are in a marina with a travel lift, and help on hand ready to go.
Good info, but a long ways from doing damage control in a seaway, IMHO.

And then, there is this vendor: https://www.turtlepac.com/products/inflatable-collision-mat-ships-oil-leak-containment/

I would guess that this "damage control" stuff would be best managed by a trained and healthy crew of 3 or 4 or more....
 
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feli

New Member
Ok so what if you work of the example in the video.
Can’t see fishing a rope to topside would be fun in that situation at night.
So how about this one
Working off the video scenario with a visible hole or through hull failure.
A reversed design on the humble umbrella
A disc of rubber or membrane of some sort ( maybe even rescue tape on steroids)
Push umbrella through the breach
Deploy umbrella
Pullback to hull and tighten down with supplied spin nut and washer.
The membrane is below umbrella frame so frame helps keep it in place.
Ah in a perfect world……
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
For comparison (to the video), here are the compartments of the 381. The bow water tank is about where the YM test hole is. You can't stand in the other openings and also bend over to work on the interior hull, so the working position would be prone, with very long arms required. .

Simply removing the 7x6' heavy mattress cushions is awkward, and then they fill the saloon. If gear is in the compartments, that has to come out. Now everything is a mess, access to tools is restricted in tight quarters, and water is already over the floorboards.

Crews can perform miracles when survival is at stake, and many have. So, bring a miracle.

IMG_6774.JPG...IMG_6778.JPG
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Don't the bulkheads under the v-berth rise above the water line? A bit anyway. Until you start penetrating them with vents, drawers, plumbing...
 
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