Seacock woes, advice needed please

[Frank Langer]

Hi,
The handle on the water intake seacock in the head turns freely, but the seacock ball inside won't open. I'm guessing the internal connection between the handle and the ball is worn out. I'm guessing I need to replace the seacock top, the parts inside the boat, but probably not the thru hull which looks OK.
My questions : 1) is there a quick fix to reconnect the handle/spindle to the inside ball valve? 2) The intake is about a foot below the water line - - is it reasonable to plug the intake with a wooden plug from the outside water side to enable me to replace the part inside the boat or is that too risky? 3) Is the only reasonable option to haul the boat? 4) Am I likely able to remove the top part from the thru hull with a normal wrench or will it likely need heat and other persuasion (it doesn't look corroded but is more the 10 years old).
Thanks for any advice and tips.
Frank

 

[Rocinante33]

Frank,

I replaced mine (though mine is Marelon) by snorkeling down and putting an old fashioned rubber plunger over the hole with as tight a suction as I could muster. It worked great.

You can even be smarter than I was (I removed the handle, then dove down again to remove the plunger). Take the handle off, then cram a small line into the socket and replace the handle. Tie a couple or three half hitches (or any knot, really) around the handle. Lead the end of the line up on deck. Then, when you are done, just pull the plunger up. No second dive needed.

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks, Keith. I hadn't thought of using a plunger. It might give a tighter seal than a wooden plug, so unless someone has a better idea, I'll try that. If it doesn't work for me, I guess I can plug it from inside the boat while I dive again to insert a wooden plug into the thru hull.

I'm still wondering if I will be able to get the top part of the seacock off with a normal wrench or if it will cause me grief and maybe even break off the thru hull altogether.

Thanks for any additional thoughts on how to approach this repair safely.

Frank

 

[GrandpaSteve]

Thanks, Keith. I hadn't thought of using a plunger. It might give a tighter seal than a wooden plug, so unless someone has a better idea, I'll try that. If it doesn't work for me, I guess I can plug it from inside the boat while I dive again to insert a wooden plug into the thru hull.

I'm still wondering if I will be able to get the top part of the seacock off with a normal wrench or if it will cause me grief and maybe even break off the thru hull altogether.

Thanks for any additional thoughts on how to approach this repair safely.

Frank

I don't know which sea cock it is, but if it is for anything but the engine, and you get hauled for the winter, it might be late enough in the season to wait until you are hauled and fix it then.

Re-reading, I see it is the head intake- if it is broken closed just flush with fresh water and fix on the next haul out.

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks for your reply, Grandpa Steve. I sail year round on the BC coast, so waiting til winter haul-out doesn't happen for me. I hauled last spring for insurance survey, and am not scheduled to haul again for two years for bottom paint. So I really do need to fix it now, though a fresh water flush may help in the next few days til I get the resolve to tackle it. :0

Frank

 

[paul culver]

Same thing happened to me for the engine seawater intake valve handle. I connected a hose from the head sink drain through-hull to the engine intake to buy time until haul out.

Paul
E29 "Bear"

 

[GrandpaSteve]

Around here you can get a "short-haul" too, they haul you at a reduced rate and you stay in the slings long enough to do some work- maybe a yard near you does that?

 

[MMLOGAN]

You can do it from the inside.

Frank,

We had the sink drain valve stop working just as you described. Handle moved but not change on the internals. Lucky for us it was stuck in the closed position. Here's the steps we followed:

Remove the hose and verifying the part.

Can't find the identical part? Measure the outside diameter of the opening and deduct the wall thickness of the part.

Locate suitable replacement.

Using a razor knife and sand paper you can create plug from a wine bottle cork. If you need a larger plug, you can get cork plugs at the hardware store. The longer the cork the better.

Have all of the correct size wrenches available prior to starting the removal for the valve. Having a plunger or plug that you can put in from the outside is a good back-up plan.

Using a large wrench to hold the thru-hull in position, take a second wrench and remove the valve. You will have some water enter the boat when the valve is removed, but, quick work with the plug will limit the ingress. We ended up with less than an gallon.

Push the cork in just enough to stop the flow. You don't want it stuck when you are ready to remove it.

Check the new part against the old part prior to install.

Remove cork and install new part being sure to support the thru-hull with a wrench.

Dry area with towel and then place a dry paper towel below new valve to identify and leaks.

When confident that the new valve is dry, reinstall hose using dish soap as lube and heat if necessary.

After doing one of these while in the slip it gives confidence to deal with a true leak at sea.

Best of luck,

 

[bgary]

You will have some water enter the boat when the valve is removed, but, quick work with the plug will limit the ingress. We ended up with less than an gallon.

from the peanut gallery... yes, quick work with a plug will limit the ingress.

With paddlewheel speed transducers, it was (and might still be) quite common to pull the paddlewheel and replace it with a solid plug when putting the boat away between races. It's a little scary the first time you have a solid column of water coming up into the boat right in front of your face, but with the right plug ready at hand it isn't much water and is easily managed.

Think of it as capping a well-head.... pretty easy to do, with the right preparation.

$.02

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks, guys. I have replaced the knot meter impeller with the dummy insert many times and that's OK. In talking with various folks, the risk is that if the ball valve is so tight on the thru hull that it snaps off the thru hull, or if the thru hull turns and loses its seal, then I'll have a leak that is not so easily managed and would require quick haul out. One mechanic was very reluctant to help with the boat in the water.
So I think I'll bite the bullet and haul it out to do it carefully and properly.
Frank

 

[mfield]

So I think I'll bite the bullet and haul it out to do it carefully and properly.
Frank

A wise choice, something is bound to snap off at an awkward angle when you apply a large wrench to it. Since haul out will double your repair bull why not replace a few more valves at the same time to amortize it over more through-hulls.

 

[Frank Langer]

Thanks, Mike. I did consider replacing more thru hulls but most were replaced by a previous owner, look to be good quality bronze and they are expensive to buy.

I will replace prop shaft zincs, maybe add a coat of bottom paint, check rudder, cutless bearing, etc.

Frank

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Thru Hull Repair

Hi Frank
The Haul sounds like the best bet to me. Quick fixes suggested sound wonderful and I would really like to brag about having thought them up and done them.
Unexpected stuff happens on boats.
Last week I was changing the pressure relief on the HW tank. No big deal I plumbed it up 30 years ago. It was so hard to break free that I bent the adjacent pipes a little and now one of the connections is weeping just a little. It is so little that I am actually hoping it will stop (oh sure) Who would have thought that could have happened.
The head thru hulls on my E28+ are very tight and difficult to work on. I had one leak at launch once and was glad we could pull the boat out and fix it. I was lucky the trucker did not charge me for the short haul as he was returning the next day to the same ramp. Unexpected stuff happens to me anyway. :<{)))
Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+ Chips Universal 5411

 

[Frank Langer]

Update: problem fixed

So I agonized for a bit on how to approach this repair - - leave boat in the water or haul it, try to do it myself or hire a pro, etc.
I decided that the risk of the older bronze thru hull snapping off, or the seal loosening as I tried to remove the broken ball valve was too great. I also decided that my ability to remove the ball joint with limited tools in the tight area under the head sink was also questionable.
So the boatyard kept the boat in the slings for an hour and the mechanic was able to remove the ball valve without disturbing the thru hull. Rates were reasonable and the repair was done safely.
Thanks again for all your input and suggestions!
Frank

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Head Thru Hulls

Hi Frank
Great. Glad the yard treated you well on the short haul. Those head thru hulls are hard to get to. When I replaced the big one (in the comfort of the back yard) I had to do a twofer and do the intake too as I could not figure out how to get a powerful wrench on the big one.
FWIW I don't know how tough your CG is on waste tank thru hull inspection. I could not pass as my old thru hull does not lock closed. We hose clamped a bronze ring to the base of the old thru hull and then use a big red plastic tie to lock or should I say secure the valve handle to the thru hull base bronze ring so it is locked closed. Seems to be acceptable as I have passed CG Aux inspection a bunch of times. When I can legally pump outside the NH or ME limits I cut off the wire tie, pump, and put on a new tie.
Best Regards
Pat
1981 E28+ Universal 5411

 

[GrandpaSteve]

Good decision, I'm glad the problem is fixed.

 

[Christian Williams]

That went well. It reminds me that often the solution is a boatyard.