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Single hand reefing...thoughts on this idea >>>

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Thoughts? A festival of friction, a mosh pit of potential fouls, a hardware store's worth of fittings and remarkably ugly to boot.

This guy reinvented dead-simple slab reefing so as to make it not work. And managed to add some dangling lines, too.

But really, I have no opinion.... :)
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
This scheme generally works best in light or no wind. A flapping sail *really* ups the friction forces. The line lead path along the boom is unnecessarily crooked, too. I have seen commercial versions with a ball -bearing block fastened to each cringle -- more $ and install complications.
And then there is the entanglement potential of the loops of line flailing around when the wind and boat motion are making the situation even 'sportier' !
:rolleyes:

Interesting how the author is willing to allow his leach to greatly overlap the topping lift -- my first priority would have been to throw some of those $ into a rod vang. On our prior boat the topping lift would snag batten pockets rather often. Current boat came with a rod vang, and we appreciated it the first time we raised the main.

"Each to his own" as the saying goes.
 

patrscoe

Member III
My experience - this set up does not work. You cannot get the sail reefed down tight with this set up. One end would become tight but my clew was always about 2" shy from being where it needed. Which is important - you are reefing due to increased wind and you need the main set for the current conditions and I typically want a flat foot - you cannot do that if your clew is not reefed down.
Doing this at the dock is one thing but when it is blowing 15 knots, that is a different story - which he did not show. There is just too much friction under load. And this guy has about 6 or 7 fairleads, up and down and at the bottom of the mast, which is a pinch point.
I currently have two lines per reef, one at the tack and one at the clew. Tighten the tack first and the then clew. I am happy with this and I can get a good flat foot. Only the problem is that I have 4 lines (2 reefs) and once reefed, the lines our coiled up in the cockpit. Obviously when not reefed, there is not much line coiled up. I am also a big fan of having everything at the mast. Simple and works.

II have read that Selden makes a boom that has purchases inside to allow the proper tension using a one line reef set up..
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I don't get it.... Every marina has its share of worn out, dilapidated, and unsafe boats, but a guy does a (fair) job of installing a single line reefing system on a decent looking boat and folks want to get all critical over it.

I just re-did the SLR on my boat this year. Why? The boat already had it installed (with SLR line internal to boom) so it was cheaper, faster, and easier than installing additional lines and hardware for a 2-line system. And, as an inexperienced sailor, it was something I wanted to try out and make up my own mind about.

20200622_191759.jpg 20200622_191742.jpg

Here's the post I made about 2 weeks ago after trying it out for the first time. I'm quite happy with it!

"I got to test my first and second reef-lines-run-aft setup a couple weekends ago in roughly 20K of wind. Ok, a little light for a second reef maybe, but enough to test the mechanics of the new setup:

1st reef is set up as single-line reefing. Second reef is separate downhaul and clew/outhaul lines. So which was better? Double-line reefing, of course, because you can adjust the tack and clew independently, in the order you choose, with precise tension control of each.

So, why use single-line reefing at all? As mentioned before, it saves a sheave at both the mast collar and the deck organizer, and it saves a spot in the line clutch. Though I have extra sheaves open in my deck organizer, I would have to add at least a horn cleat to cleat off a separate 1st-reef downhaul. My experience from the other weekend is that it's not worth the small gain for me to do so--I had a perfectly acceptable sail shape from the SLR setup. From some freak of luck, when the tack is pulled downward by the single line (I use a block in both the tack and clew) the tack block comes to a stop on the ram's-horn, leaving the tack only about 3-4 inches higher than where it would be if hooked to the horn itself. Once the tack block is touching the horn, any additional tension on on the single reefing line can only pull the clew in tighter. Unless this eventually leads to damage of the tack block (something I'll have to keep an eye on), it seems to distribute the tension of tack and clew much as I would do if I had separate lines. So, for the immediate future, I'm keeping SLR for the 1st reef.

I didn't see any evidence of the usual complaint, that "SLR results in too much line friction." I can still hoist my main by hand to nearly full height, as long as I pay out enough slack in the reef lines. And, I didn't feel that the winch tension was significantly higher on the SLR than on the Reef-2 outhaul. YMMV...."


20200712_171900 (4).jpg

 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Well, his installation is ugly and complicated and no excuse for that.

But Single-line reefing is one of those controversies. If it works for you that's good, all our needs are different.
 

u079721

Contributing Partner
I asked about single line reefing when I ordered a new main for my 38 a few years ago. But the loft said no way they would ever install any type of single line reefing on any boat larger than 27 feet, as the forces and friction just got too great. Sounds reasonable to me.
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
I have been experimenting with a single-line reef on my Ericson/Olson 911 (30ft) the friction can be solved with a few well placed blocks (and the new friction less devices). It's really the length of line needed (2nd reef at 80'+) on a larger boat's main sail that is the problem. The line on the tack end tends to tangle and wrap on anything available when raising. Not a problem when the sail is up and lowered to put a reef in. But the times raising when windy can be frustrating! If I didn't sail on a river, I would use the system it came with and heave-to to put a reef in. The tack horn and stoppers on the boom work fine. That would also free back up two clutches and two deck organizer positions for the spin rigging. I sail the boat myself and with guests too often. Heaving-to would be fine but there are stretches of water that are narrow with current and traffic that make it impractical. Strange how that's where the wind really picks up. I know! Reef early. We all know that doesn't always happen. "Doesn't look that bad... Having too good a time... Too much work... Let's see when we get there.." I am sure i am not the first to say any or all of these.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
For the record, it should not be necessary to heave to to reef, and the boat should be reefable under way on any point of sail including dead downwind.
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
Not when you are alone, have to go forward to hook the horn and pull lines, with no autopilot on a river in 20 knots of wind.
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
It's pretty obvious that on a typical single-line reef system, the greatest % of friction comes from the two near-180-degree reversals of the line through the sail cringles. By putting ball-bearing blocks on the cringles, there are no non-sheaved friction points in my system. I just haven't seen these large frictional loads eveyone keeps referring too.
 
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olsenjohn

John Olsen
Blogs Author
Hey Christian, I am interested in learning how you would reef on any point of sail without an autopilot or SLR if you are single handing. Especially with the original reef setup that has the clew reefs out on the clew end of the boom. I mean that genuinely, you have so much more experience than me. I do what Grant does as I have no autopilot and I find the manual tiller tamer is of minimal use in wavy / windy conditions other than locking tiller for heaving to. I heave to then go to the mainmast and do my work. But I am willing to learn a better way! :)

On my last sailboat and originally on my E25 the clew reefs were at the clew end of the boom. When I hove to the clew end of the boom ended up in an awkward place for me to reach hanging just a bit out of reach over lee side of the boat while everything was bouncing around. My boat would not heave to very well with the boom on center, it liked it off center, as does my E25. After some modifications on my current boat I now have everything routed to the mast end of the boom in one place. Four lines, 2 clew, 2 tack, with minimal blocks or turns anywhere in the system, the clew lines internal to the boom. Very fast and simple. But I have to heave to and go to the mast if I am alone.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
There are cleats for reefing at the outer end of the boom? Maybe I misunderstand. I don't see how that would work for anybody.

I imagine it's not easy to get a 25 to hold a reaching course in 20 knots and waves. I would try letting the main luff until helm balance is achieved and then lashing the tiller in that position. But you already do that, no doubt. The answer is a tillermaster or wheel pilot. Fin keel boats just don't behave without some body or some thing to steer.

Nobody reefs with the boom amidships except at the dock, except maybe for small boats without a topping lift. It takes 15 minutes or so to complete the procedures, and you can;t stay head to wind in waves and wind. Generally it's a beam reach for reefing, where the sail can luff harmlessly beyond the cockpit and where the crew have full access to the gear at the gooseneck.

I may be missing something important in my visualization, but I would definitely not like to heave to, back the jib, reef the main and then have to jibe back on course in heavy air. I just posted a video of my own drill, let me try to find it. If you watch it, turn on YouTube Closed Captions [cc].

 

olsenjohn

John Olsen
Blogs Author
Not the very end, but probably about 1/3 from the end. Definitely in my opinion a very awkward place for them, and it did not work for me. I really like where I moved them, just aft of the goose-neck. Everything is right at the mast and accessible from either side. I copied the layout after seeing how it was done a J-24.

I liked the video, and if I followed along correctly it looked like you had independent reefing lines for tack and clew? Pretty much exactly what I do except I heave to and go to the base of the mast, then come back. Once I get an autopilot I may rethink that and set it up like yours as I won't have the helm problem anymore.
 
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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Yes. I think having all the reefing stuff at the base of the mast works well, and it gets the skipper and his flying elbows out of the crowded cockpit.

It is however a convenience to have all lines led back when offshore and alone, esp. at night, when dealing with a headlamp, harness, jackline and a bucking deck add challenges for old-timers less nimble than they once were.
 

Sailingfun

Member III
I have the same system installed on my Ericson 27 and I sail on the bay area, 22 knots every day! I prefer it because I hate the mast for anything when we're under sails... it's unsafe.
I replace and put new blocks to reduce tension and install Dyneema lines to avoid excessive friction.
The only difference I have is the main halyard is in the same side in order to work just with one section of the clutches.
For me, work but mine is a small sailboat... maybe on a 36' friction ruined everything.
 
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