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Spotty Fiberglass

Petro206

Member I
roof.jpg
Hey everyone! First thread, just joined the forum. Recently purchased a project boat from a friend. It's a '79 Ericson 34T. He had started the remodel with his wife, then kids happened. So now my friend and I are taking over. This is the midship looking up just aft of the mast. I've read different articles on what these black spots are, and wondering if I can get some feedback here. You may also notice some cracks near the opening. We were going to throw a new ceiling treatment over this and continue with the remodel, but I've read that black spots like this could be a sign of deterioration of the fiberglass. I live in the PNW, and went into a local glass shop called Fiberlay. The guy in the store recommended sanding it with a 60 grit to roughen up the surface, then adding a layer of glass before giving it a ceiling treatment. So I guess I have three questions.
1. Is this of major concern as I already noted?
2. Is his repair work necessary?
3. Is there a insulation or vapor barrier I should put between this surface and the finished ceiling treatment?

Thank you!
 

Jerry VB

E32-3 / M-25XP
Looks like "black mold" to me. You are in the PNW which has a lot of rain and humidity and boats love to grow mold in those conditions. The (removed) headliner was a thin sheet of foam (soaks up moisture) covered by vinyl (traps moisture). Excellent growing conditions.

I would treat it with mold killing solution (store bought or diluted bleach, vinegar, baking soda, etc.), clean it thoroughly, and I expect it will look good and smell much better. Random web search: The Top 14 Boat Mold Removal Techniques
 

David Vaughn

Member II
Blogs Author
Mold is my first thought too. Especially with the staining in the wood at the top right of your photo. Maybe not, but I'd be very sure before I put up a new ceiling. For anyone with respiratory issues, mold can be very bad news. Clean an area with bleach or mold killer. Wear a respirator. See what happens.

As for the cracks, grind them out with a Dremel to see how deep they are. It is likely that you'll have to lay new fiberglass, but grinding first to eliminate the crack, then layering glass over will give you a stronger repair. Many YouTube videos on that subject - the Boatworks Today guy seems to know what he's doing on projects like that. The West System also has a number of videos on that repair.
Then, of course, there is the question of what caused the cracks, and has that been remedied so that it doesn't occur again?
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Yes looks like mold. Once you have treated the mold, try to eliminate as many leaks as possible and use a dehumidifier during the winter and spring rainy season. One of those little muffin fans does wonders if the leaks are addressed.
 

Petro206

Member I
Thanks all, I forgot to mention the mold scenario. So if we treat it like mold, there's no need to lay more glass on top? I just treat it with these solutions? Do the black spots disappear when it's been adequately treated? Thanks!
 

bigd14

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
I don’t think you need more glass unless the existing glass is brittle or has voids which would mean it probably wasn’t laid up correctly (not enough resin applied to the cloth, for example). That’s pretty unlikely. Mold doesn’t degrade fiberglass. If it sounds and feels solid when pressed and tapped with the butt of a screwdriver or something similar it’s probably fine. The black spots are difficult to remove but at least you should be able to kill off what’s there with a bleach solution and if the boat is dry it shouldn’t spread any further.

On the other hand if the core above the moldy area is wet and rotten and is spreading water into the area and causing the mold problem it might be a more difficult situation to address. But I would bet my (one) dollar on it being moldy from a chronically damp boat interior.
 

Jerry VB

E32-3 / M-25XP
No experience but... I would scrub it with a diluted bleach solution (#7 in the mold link) or vinegar solution (#3 in the mold link) using a deck brush (hey, it's the underside of the deck after all). That should kill the mold and also any spores that are in the rough glass surface. If that does not clean the black off, I would go over it again with soapy water.

I've watched youtube videos of boats in the tropics where they spritz their cabin surfaces with a vinegar solution to discourage the mold from regrowing. That is also mentioned in the vinegar recommendation (#3 in the mold link).
 

Petro206

Member I
No experience but... I would scrub it with a diluted bleach solution (#7 in the mold link) or vinegar solution (#3 in the mold link) using a deck brush (hey, it's the underside of the deck after all). That should kill the mold and also any spores that are in the rough glass surface. If that does not clean the black off, I would go over it again with soapy water.

I've watched youtube videos of boats in the tropics where they spritz their cabin surfaces with a vinegar solution to discourage the mold from regrowing. That is also mentioned in the vinegar recommendation (#3 in the mold link).
Loved the Mold link...thank you!
 

Petro206

Member I
I don’t think you need more glass unless the existing glass is brittle or has voids which would mean it probably wasn’t laid up correctly (not enough resin applied to the cloth, for example). That’s pretty unlikely. Mold doesn’t degrade fiberglass. If it sounds and feels solid when pressed and tapped with the butt of a screwdriver or something similar it’s probably fine. The black spots are difficult to remove but at least you should be able to kill off what’s there with a bleach solution and if the boat is dry it shouldn’t spread any further.

On the other hand if the core above the moldy area is wet and rotten and is spreading water into the area and causing the mold problem it might be a more difficult situation to address. But I would bet my (one) dollar on it being moldy from a chronically damp boat interior.
The previous owner told me he'd run a fan/heater during the winter....but he said he noticed some leaks in the gaskets around the windows, so he took them all out and never got around to replacing them, and then covered the thing every winter in a tarp, but I'm fairly certain that's where the problem started. Our first priority is getting this issue, then the windows back in, before the rains come back. I hate relying on tarps.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Curing the visible leaks (like around the ports) is a high priority. Not only because of the water leaking in but because of that water rotting the wood around the port.
Next would be leaks from cabin top and deck hardware. Re-bed all screws and fittings, Repeat mantra. Repeat until it's memorized. Wet deck/cabin coring is the Devil's Playground."
:(

However, any boat with a keel stepped spar will have another place for rain water to enter: down the inside of the mast. While this can be a tad irritating in the wet NW in the winters, that water can be removed weekly with pumping and then (in my case) judicious use of a turkey baster. Why so fussy? Skipping over whether the owner should be on some medication.....
Well, ANY loose water in a boat bilge, even a little bit, will constantly be evaporating into the interior and increasing the moisture (humidity) in the air.... which condenses on any surface being cooled by the outside atmosphere. Having a dry interior, whether warmed with a small heater or not, is the key.
As a friend once told be, when discussing his own clean boat: "A dry bilge is a happy bilge!"

Over the decades we have stopped any and all port light leaks and kept the deck penetrations sealed up; all part of living in NW Oregon. :)
I have also added vents in the faces of all interior furniture moldings, so that moisture will not be trapped against the cold hidden hull surfaces. Our interior doors have a latched 'vent' position, too. We also added, in the 90's, a pair of Beckon ss ventilators, on the aft cabin top.

Neil Young wrote/sang that "Rust never Sleeps".... true! Neither does mild and mildew on all of our boats!!
 

Queequeg

Junior Member
Hi gang, this is close to my heart. My 1980 35 Mk3 looked like leopard spots under the headliner. The Admiral was diagnosed with CIRS ( a mold allergy) which resulted in me learning an awful lot about black mold. https://jjimd.com/services/mold-illness-and-chronic-inflammatory-response-syndrome/

The takeaway is bleach doesn't kill mold, it bleaches it ie removes the color not the mold. Step 1 mechanical removal - soap and water, step 2 - spray and wipe with alcohol solution, step 3 - Concrobium spray, this is a salt that binds the mold.

Mold requires organic matter and moisture (fresh water) to thrive, so after removal keep the boat aired and remove sources of fresh water ingress.

Easier said than done. Btw mold illness can present as mood swings, Admiral was happy as a kitten in the evening and WitchyPoo in the morning with no other symptoms, this was prior to the diagnosis - scary stuff.

The good news is that was 2016 and we still own the boat, we know how to keep it safe for Her and all is smooth sailing!!
 

Petro206

Member I
Curing the visible leaks (like around the ports) is a high priority. Not only because of the water leaking in but because of that water rotting the wood around the port.
Next would be leaks from cabin top and deck hardware. Re-bed all screws and fittings, Repeat mantra. Repeat until it's memorized. Wet deck/cabin coring is the Devil's Playground."
:(

However, any boat with a keel stepped spar will have another place for rain water to enter: down the inside of the mast. While this can be a tad irritating in the wet NW in the winters, that water can be removed weekly with pumping and then (in my case) judicious use of a turkey baster. Why so fussy? Skipping over whether the owner should be on some medication.....
Well, ANY loose water in a boat bilge, even a little bit, will constantly be evaporating into the interior and increasing the moisture (humidity) in the air.... which condenses on any surface being cooled by the outside atmosphere. Having a dry interior, whether warmed with a small heater or not, is the key.
As a friend once told be, when discussing his own clean boat: "A dry bilge is a happy bilge!"

Over the decades we have stopped any and all port light leaks and kept the deck penetrations sealed up; all part of living in NW Oregon. :)
I have also added vents in the faces of all interior furniture moldings, so that moisture will not be trapped against the cold hidden hull surfaces. Our interior doors have a latched 'vent' position, too. We also added, in the 90's, a pair of Beckon ss ventilators, on the aft cabin top.

Neil Young wrote/sang that "Rust never Sleeps".... true! Neither does mild and mildew on all of our boats!!
Great stuff, thank you Loren!
 

Petro206

Member I
Hi gang, this is close to my heart. My 1980 35 Mk3 looked like leopard spots under the headliner. The Admiral was diagnosed with CIRS ( a mold allergy) which resulted in me learning an awful lot about black mold. https://jjimd.com/services/mold-illness-and-chronic-inflammatory-response-syndrome/

The takeaway is bleach doesn't kill mold, it bleaches it ie removes the color not the mold. Step 1 mechanical removal - soap and water, step 2 - spray and wipe with alcohol solution, step 3 - Concrobium spray, this is a salt that binds the mold.

Mold requires organic matter and moisture (fresh water) to thrive, so after removal keep the boat aired and remove sources of fresh water ingress.

Easier said than done. Btw mold illness can present as mood swings, Admiral was happy as a kitten in the evening and WitchyPoo in the morning with no other symptoms, this was prior to the diagnosis - scary stuff.

The good news is that was 2016 and we still own the boat, we know how to keep it safe for Her and all is smooth sailing!!
Yikes! Yeah, I already feel (cough, cough) like I've been exposed a bit too much in the last two days, but I have an awesome respirator now that I wear in there. Glad everyone is ok on your crew!

Two questions here. One, what is the "Alcohol solution"? I don't want to waste the good stuff. haha.

Two, when applying soap and water, alcohol, and Concrobium, am I scrubbing any of these in, or just spraying and letting the solution do it's work?

Based on the Mold kill link that was provided earlier, I wonder if the addition of baking soda into your steps might be worth considering as well. Thank you for sharing!
 

Petro206

Member I
Curing the visible leaks (like around the ports) is a high priority. Not only because of the water leaking in but because of that water rotting the wood around the port.
Next would be leaks from cabin top and deck hardware. Re-bed all screws and fittings, Repeat mantra. Repeat until it's memorized. Wet deck/cabin coring is the Devil's Playground."
:(

However, any boat with a keel stepped spar will have another place for rain water to enter: down the inside of the mast. While this can be a tad irritating in the wet NW in the winters, that water can be removed weekly with pumping and then (in my case) judicious use of a turkey baster. Why so fussy? Skipping over whether the owner should be on some medication.....
Well, ANY loose water in a boat bilge, even a little bit, will constantly be evaporating into the interior and increasing the moisture (humidity) in the air.... which condenses on any surface being cooled by the outside atmosphere. Having a dry interior, whether warmed with a small heater or not, is the key.
As a friend once told be, when discussing his own clean boat: "A dry bilge is a happy bilge!"

Over the decades we have stopped any and all port light leaks and kept the deck penetrations sealed up; all part of living in NW Oregon. :)
I have also added vents in the faces of all interior furniture moldings, so that moisture will not be trapped against the cold hidden hull surfaces. Our interior doors have a latched 'vent' position, too. We also added, in the 90's, a pair of Beckon ss ventilators, on the aft cabin top.

Neil Young wrote/sang that "Rust never Sleeps".... true! Neither does mild and mildew on all of our boats!!
Thanks Loren. We started cleaning it off and it's coming off nicely. However, the question came up, what about the mold/mildew behind the wood that we're not removing? So like behind cabinets and/or side panels, etc. We're cleaning the headliners, and all the surface wood, but if there's mildew/mold behind the surfaces, is there a product to use to kill these hard to reach areas, or do we just keep it as dry as possible so they don't spread?
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
However, the question came up, what about the mold/mildew behind the wood that we're not removing? So like behind cabinets and/or side panels, etc. We're cleaning the headliners, and all the surface wood, but if there's mildew/mold behind the surfaces, is there a product to use to kill these hard to reach areas, or do we just keep it as dry as possible so they don't spread?
The answer might vary as the model of the boat varies. We had only some limited mold above the vinyl headliner, and cleaned that off when parts of the headliner (the dreaded 1000 staples...) were taken down. In our boat any wood bonded to exterior surfaces, like the inside of the cabin sides is sealed and bonded. I have used bleach and soap to clean the inside of the hull from bow to stern. And we keep the compartments inside of lockers and behind settees dry with vents that we have added.

When we bought our boat the inside of the teak veneered cabin sides was water stained from port frame leaks, I installed new ports, and used a commercial cleaner/bleach product called "Te-Ka" to brighten and clean up all of our interior wood. Then we varnished it.

Here is one blog entry with some refinishing info and there are others to look at too. https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/another-fall-another-bulkhead.107/
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
I thought about making a separate post for this topic, bit it's pretty relevant here: The workings of Ericson's Dorade/Cowl vent system.

On the 32-3, there is a single dorade in front of the mast and two cowl vents on the stern. I think all are 3" diameter vents. However, when the boat is closed up, there are no vents or open air passages between the saloon (dorade) and the engine compartment (cowls).

Sure, while air can leak through cracks around cabinetry and doors/panels, a passive ventilation system needs easy passages for airflow. It seems the only way to provide this in the 32-3 is to leave the under-sink cabinet door or the port-side engine access panel open. Otherwise, I don't see how passive ventilation is provided between the dorade and the cowls.
 
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