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Stained Teak Veneer - Suggestions

markvone

Sustaining Member
The boat had a leak at the deck/head bulkhead tie down fitting that water stained the teak plywood veneer. This is in the v berth on the forward side of the head bulkhead so not very visible. I know I can replace the plywood (not happening) or cover the area with new veneer but I'd like to try and deal with the staining first. I've tried wood bleach on stains on the sole with no results. I've got the finish partially stripped off and plan to refinish the entire panel. No sanding or color staining attempted yet. Thoughts? Yes, I can refinish it as-is and live with it. The leak has been sealed.
Thanks.

Mark

IMG_4923.JPGIMG_4946.JPG
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Long Shot, but did you try "TeKa" A and B? Also, and of course at some risk... you can sand this veneer more than you might for a newer boat. They used noticeably thicker veneer on our '88 model than I have seen on new teak plywood.
Difference is likely a 32nd, but still.........
(?)

Edit: link to our blog entry: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/another-fall-another-bulkhead.107/
 
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Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Long Shot, but did you try "TeKa" A and B? Also, and of course at some risk... you can sand this veneer more than you might for a newer boat. They used noticeably thicker veneer on our '88 model than I have seen on new teak plywood.
Difference is likely a 32nd, but still.........
(?)
I love teak on a boat, so am surprising even myself by suggesting the possibility of painting just that one bulkhead, either cream colour or off white. It could brighten the cabin, give nice contrast to the remaining teak, and would save alot of work. You could enhance it by mounting a gold barometer, clock and small art picture on that wall to make it a feature wall.
Let us know what you decide, and how it turns out.
Frank
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I'll bet if you strip the rest of the old varnish and put on new (satin) it will meet standards.

There is also Brightside paint, in which Hatteras Off White goes well with the headliner. That would also brighten up the V-berth.

[posted simultaneously]
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I'm following this thread with a certain 'shared interest':

IMG_8920.JPG

This article by Don Casey suggests a mix of laundry detergent and bleach for interior wood.


Oxalic acid is recommended for exterior wood. I'm not sure if that would be too much for an interior space, but

Here's a guy with a rundown. It seems like if one is using a product with 'acid' in the name, he should wear gloves, but then, maybe I'm being too prissy:


Another guy cleaning a deck with oxalic acid:

 

markvone

Sustaining Member
Loren,

Thanks! Hadn't thought of the full-on teak bleach/cleaner. Have used it on exterior teak before.

Frank, Frank, Frank,
When did you first start to consider the (un)dark side? For history, I've already chiseled off the cabinside teak veneer plywood and replaced with new teak veneer plywood. Darth Vader is my Commodore. Seriously, thanks for the suggestion.

Christian,
Thanks. I was thinking that Minwax Red Chestnut stain (used on the cabinside to match) and varnish would be good enough. If I can lighten the dark stained areas before by bleaching and/or sanding, a bonus.

Tom,

Find out what's leaking up there. Your panel is on the visible side of the head so I would seriously consider adding a veneer if the stain can't be lightened to your liking. Here is a great guide for veneer work from an E35-3. I see they list a bleaching potion that they used but I don't see any really dark water staining.
http://tkronaboat.com/interior-refinish.html
I've tried Oxalic acid on dark water stains on the cabin sole with no luck. Casey says the two part products use hydrochloric acid so I'm going to try it. Slightly difficult on a larger vertical surface.

Mark
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Never had much luck with oxalic acid. If it were my boat, I'd pull off the trim pieces, remove the finish, and re-veneer the panel. Stains in veneered
plywood never seem to come out no matter what you do.

Martin
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
Never had much luck with oxalic acid. If it were my boat, I'd pull off the trim pieces, remove the finish, and re-veneer the panel. Stains in veneered
plywood never seem to come out no matter what you do.

Martin

AMEN Martin! (Chip off the old block, so to speak, of wisdom of thought and logical perspective!)

...Back in the early ‘80’s I spliced in a repair piece to our main port bulkhead chainplate area ...leaving us with less than aesthetic look on the main salon wall.

I simply purchased a thin Teak veneer piece, then carefully cut, trimmed and glued it to the entire exposed cabin wall area and finished it accordingly.

It worked out perfectly and actually lasted until our total bulkhead replacements later around 2011 with our “Never Ending Project” of a complete refitting and restoration.

...While veneers aren’t all THAT cheap (especially Teak), they are a VERY reasonable and - better yet - FASTER alternative to ALL the hard work of wood restoration efforts that TRULY cuts into one’s actual sailing time.

Actual water-time sailing has a REAL value and should be also factored in.

BTW ...Best regards and wishes to your parents who made this site happen with HIS incredible talents we have ALL come to love and appreciate SO MUCH!!!
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Thanks for the kind words Kerry. On this kind of thing if the underlying ply is sound, then the choices are paint it or re veneer the panel. I feel that replacing the veneer is the fastest way to a good result and is not difficult to do if you are at all handy.

As far as making this site happen, all the credit should go to Sean Engle.

Martin
 

Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Seems I remember cleaning the handrails of my old San Juan 21 with household ammonia. May have some similatities with oxalic acid:

"Ammonium oxalate, also known as diammonium ethanedioate is the salt of oxalic acid with ammonium. ... Oxalate (C2O4)-2 is formed from oxalic acid through the dissociation two acidic hydrogens to form an anion...."
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
Thanks for the kind words Kerry. On this kind of thing if the underlying ply is sound, then the choices are paint it or re veneer the panel. I feel that replacing the veneer is the fastest way to a good result and is not difficult to do if you are at all handy.

As far as making this site happen, all the credit should go to Sean Engle.

Martin

Hey Martin, I TOTALLY agree about THIS site!

Sean has indeed made it HAPPEN ...realizing that what your Dad created in boat design WAS incredible and indeed has a VERY DEDICATED following of rightfully proud Ericson owners.

(Actually, VERY EARLY ON - my then VERY young early teen computer savvy son [Cary] first started the sight. ...Cary didn’t have the time or resources to put into it and so Sean - GRACIOUSLY - then accepted ALL THE early on responsibilities and HARD WORK required to turn it into the INCREDIBLE sight it has become today.)

MOST Certainly, we ALL owe Sean our gratitude and financial support (when needed) for what he has so diligently and selflessly done for us and above all ...continues to do!

Still...it ALL goes back to the very beginning with one man, a dream, ideas and an incredible pencil that put lines to paper that became such a beautiful quality boating reality.

Without THAT... NONE of this would have happened! People like your Dad...and ...Sean are the actual doers and believers in our world that CREATE the “Magic” we then get to share and enjoy in!!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Some conditions for Oxalic acid to work best: warm day, direct sunlight, multiple applicatons.

It can't get through any finish, so the wood has to be nude. You can apply the crystals as a paste, if desired. When finished flush thoroughly with water. Gloves are a good idea although, eh, well, yeah, Ok--gloves are a good idea although I often skip them.

I've applied Oxalic as many as 10 times to one surface, every 15 minutes or so, and the effort was "worth it." Direct sun important.

This ain't science, just personal experience.
 

Geoff W.

Makes Up For It With Enthusiasm
Blogs Author
When I've applied Te-Ka to the veneered plywood, spots of it get kind of cloudy and "fuzzy" for a lack of better description. I've been unsuccessful in trying to sand it off as well. Still not sure what to do about my interior wood finish, so watching this thread closely.
 

kapnkd

kapnkd
When I've applied Te-Ka to the veneered plywood, spots of it get kind of cloudy and "fuzzy" for a lack of better description. I've been unsuccessful in trying to sand it off as well. Still not sure what to do about my interior wood finish, so watching this thread closely.

When replacing our bulkheads we wanted to match new wood colors as best we could to the remaining old woods. Ultimately we ended up stripping the old wood varnish and restraining it with what we used on the new bulkheads which was a color named “Gunstock” by Minwax. (Most all of their other colors looked to much like a chocolate brown for our taste.)

Lots of stripping & careful sanding to not burn through the veneers but worth the effort as the differences in woods used blended well. ...Not to sure how well even this stain would do on some of what is shown on this thread as the water damage looks pretty severe. I would also be concerned about the condition of the wood as far as dry rot.

(Before & after photos below)
0C81792B-143A-4956-AE4A-12D4566286E5.jpeg037885C3-4F1E-4BF2-A2F3-549ED8640106.jpegD2C336F9-E58C-4298-8974-7F98C91325B9.jpeg595123F9-A10E-4C55-A3BC-6AB3F404616D.jpeg
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
I'm getting into refinishing the interior pieces as I go along so used the hidden side of the engine access panel and the back sides of some solid trim to test various stains. The problem is that the stains leave different results on the different types of material.The Varathane and Minwax gave very different results for the same name of color too.

At least for my 32-3, Minwax Mahoghany came out the overall closest to the original finish on the most pieces as shown below.
20200823_150024-4K.jpg


Hope the photos below help. btw - Disregard the Minwax Mahoghany 605 used in 2 test spots, as the 605 was an old can and no longer available. I am using the currently marketed and un-numbered Minwax mahoghany.

Note how many differences there are in sun fading on the cabinet in this photo and surfaces two photos down:
20200823_134414-X3.jpg


20200823_134149-4K.jpg


Looking down on the side of the engine cover box.
20200812_110041-X4.jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Impressive Research on coloring!
:geek:
We removed all the factory stain/color (and old oil) before varnishing. We like the natural teak look, and it makes the interior lighter and more cheerful. All subjective... totally.

FWIW, over the years, I notice some sun fading on all of the exposed pieces, whether solid timber or veneers.
 

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
I just used a bunch of can I had and bought a few little samplers.

Am posting this photo to show how incredibly thin the veneer is and easy it is to sand through.
20200815_151629-4K.jpg

Fortunately the darkening of those areas with stain was not much darker or conspicuous.
20200823_150024-X4.jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Cabinet makers have told me that modern veneers are much thinner than was common in the 80's. Yikes.
(I have too-aggressively sanded thru a few tiny spots on ours. That's one reason we learned to rely more on the cleaning action of TeKa and follow up with nothing lower than about 100 or 120 grit for a first pass.)
Speaking strictly as a rank amateur and occasional wood-butcherer, the close fit of all of the interior pieces on our boat just amazes us! Those guys were GOOD! :)
 
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Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
Its nice to be with such good company....

I've been sanding, varnishing, and re-gluing parts of my sole. Near the mast base (where there was water damage) a few strips of both teak and holly separated from the plywood. The veneer is thin but sandable. I use only 220 and 320 sandpaper--a quick pass with an orbital sander, then a hand finish. As noted above, it's pretty easy to see when you've sanded through the veneer. If you stop immediately, its pretty easy to re-stain that section and have a not-too-noticeable repair. I've had my best matches with Minwax "Gunstock" but may try "Mahogony" as well for those darker (less faded) teak areas.
 
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Kenneth K

1985 32-3, Puget Sound
Blogs Author
@Tin Kicker - nice looking engine access panel.

I got tired of having to remove that whole panel to open/close the fuel shutoff valve by my primary filter.

I cut a hole for a black plastic round access port just outboard of the fuel valve. Now I can just reach a hand in to move the valve without wrestling the whole wood panel in and out.
 
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