Standing Rigging / Chain plate to hull termination

K2MSmith

Member III
I'm having a rigging inspection done on my E-33. Before doing that, I thought I would look to see what parts of the internal chainplate mechanism can be inspected. I didn't see any pictures of this on the survey report, so I guess it wasn't done.. As it turns out, it is not so simple...

The chainplate for the shrouds connects to rods inside the boat that terminates in the hull at what looks like a connection to a tube embedded in the fiberglass. it looks like the tubes also protrude various amounts. Anyone know how this is works ? The photos are the best I can do holding an iPhone inside a small hatch. The hatch is at the bottom of a sliding cabinet near the water tank on starboard and waste tank on port. ( they are not easily accessible) . First photo shows starboard side, second port and third is the rods from the chainplate going into the hull. the little sliding cabinet has a floor/hatch that can be removed. If you reach far enough with the camera (on self-timer), you can get photos.
 

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bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
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K2MSmith

Member III
The rods tie into the threaded aluminum cylinders glassed into the hull and then up to an aluminum block under the deck. The ubolts connect to this block. Tensioning the rods holds the deck down when the rigging is tightened.

More info here:https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/ericson-30-chainplate-u-bolt.10836/#post-73331
Thanks for the post. I thought it was a bit strange that aluminum cylinders have different amounts protruding from the side. If the rod is actually threaded into that cylinder as opposed to connecting to something that goes around the cylinder, I guess they can't slide out... I'm also unclear as to how the loads are distributed between the rod termination in the hull and the deck plates. the backside of the deck plates might require cutting of the headliner to see it. The headliner zippers all seem to be corroded and won't let you open it.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
how the loads are distributed between the rod termination in the hull and the deck plates.

That question interested me, too. On boats with inboard shrouds, the shroud meets the deck at an angle, and then the angle changes as it passes through the deck to its interior termination. Doesn't that put a lot of strain on the deck where it passes through? And that angle on the E38 is more than a few degrees.

A surveyor nodded and said, "that's taken into account by the designer. "

The 32-3 also has aluminum cylinder "dead men" installed in the TAFG as shroud terminations. The E381 uses big interior chainplates attached to plywood bulkheads.

chainplates E381.JPG
 

K2MSmith

Member III
It sounds like the E-33 might be more like the 32-3. it is comforting to be able to see all those big bolts and shiny metal plates on the E381.

It looks like you have the same type of zipper headliner. Are you able to open those ? I am trying to figure out how to free up the zippers so I can open the headliner to get a the back of the chainplates and a few rope clutches that need to be replaced without cutting it.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
Frozen zipper pulls are common on our boats, but the Nylon zippers are usually good as new. That's good, because the sliders can be substituted in place, whereas a ruined zipper needs the headliner taken down. Many threads on sliders. I just replaced one, they're usually #5c.

A corroded slider may need to be destroyed with pliers. To mount new slider, detach zipper tape at one end, just an inch or two, for ease of insertion. Then sew together by hand. Usually the headliner batten covers the sewing job.

 
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K2MSmith

Member III
Frozen zipper pulls are common on our boats, but the Nylon zippers are usually good as new. That's good, because the sliders can be substituted in place, whereas a ruined zipper needs the headliner taken down. Many threads on sliders. I just replaced one, they're usually #5c.

A corroded slider may need to be destroyed with pliers. To mount new slider, detach zipper tape at one end, just an inch or two, for ease of insertion. Then sew together by hand. Usually the headliner batten covers the sewing job.

Pls see attached photos . If able to get the damn zipper working , I can unravel the mystery of both the chain plate deck mount and replace my slipping main halyard clutch ( located near my index finger . So the zipper pull can just be cut off and I can slide a new YYK #5 in its place ? So I need to expose the end of the zipper to slide it on or is the a way to put the pull on at the spot where I take the old one off ? Thanks !
 

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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
Yes, just unstitch the zipper tape an inch or two (the Nylon zipper teeth are on a cloth tape which is sewn to the vinyl). That makes it easier to mount the new slider.

zip tabs - Copy.JPG

You can then sew the tapes back together. In this case I just screwed them to the bulkhead, since that part is covered by the batten. And added a few turns of thread as a slider stopper.

zip screwsIMG_5887.JPG
 

K2MSmith

Member III
On original topic, I just had a rigging inspection done by a competent rigger in the area. He looked at tie rod/hull termination method Ericson is using (see my photos) . He said the only way to really inspect it would be to remove the tanks (and presumably all the interior wood components that cover it and take it apart and disassemble it. 'mmm that wasn't good news for me ($$$). He also said that steel/aluminum interface was not a good choice because of corrosion possibilities. I understand the Ericson 32's have the same design. Has anyone done this ?
 

K2MSmith

Member III
They are visible on the E-33 through a hatch in a sliding door cabinet below the shelf, but not easily accessible for disassembly. I would imagine that someone with long spider-like arms might be able to get a wrench on the rod (which I noticed as flat spots, probably for the wrench). From a downloaded Ericson bulletin, the rods are not supposed to be in that tight if the mast is off the boat, so maybe if there is no corrosion in the threads, they will come out without major disassembly of the tanks/interior. I am actually more afraid of the cost of some of these parts (like the U-bolts in the deck plate) if they need replacing as it seems that there is only one vendor charging shockingly high prices for this stuff. I have sent off an email to different vendor (garhauer marine) to see if they do custom machining of these parts. (according to a catalina site I googled).

PS.. from the angle of the rods in your picture, it looks like the termination is much higher in the E-32 hull than in the E-33.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I have the rig down now, and also have the deck piece on each side removed. I had no corrosion in the 'cup' that was machined into each aluminum block. Someone at EY had bedded our deck fittings with an Olympic record amount of 5200. :)
It was a bear to disassemble, but no moisture had sneaked in. (!)

We will put some lube into each hidden aluminum block during the reinstall when the deck is painted, and hardware is installed again. At this point all of the half inch holes thru our deck for this (and everything else) have been over drilled, undercut to remove core, epoxy filled, and then drilled out again.
While the actual shroud deck fitting is different on the Olson's, the functionality is identical to the 80's Ericson's.
Note that others here have sourced new replacement U-bolts from Garhauer.
(The OEM U-bolts may have been from Navtec, like the big connecting rod on the inside with the flats for tightening, and Navtec is long out of this business. AFAIK.)
 
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K2MSmith

Member III
If you have pictures of the Chainplate assemblies including hull termination, I would be interested in comparing. Coincidentally, I got in touch with Garhauer and they emailed me back indicating they will make replacements. Nice to know . Allied Titanium also makes U-bolt replacements ( 5 level ) for the hobie 33 which was also navtec . Spoke to them in the phone and they will custom-machine replacements as well that are still cheaper then the OEM replacements. Nice to know there are choices when we do the new standing rigging in a few months.
 

bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I would try to get a wrench around those flats on the rods and see if they can be screwed up or down. If they move relatively easily I wouldn't worry about the threads in the aluminum cylinder. If they are frozen then there could be corrosion issues. The good news is that any moisture making its way towards that area has to pass through the cabin first and would likely evaporate. And your photos dont seem to show any obvious signs of water ingress or corrosion. More likely is that the water would get into and damage the aluminum blocks that sit at the top of the rods under the deck. I had a local machine shop make up some new blocks out of a special high strength aluminum. I don’t recall the exact type but I know it was high strength because I had to file one of the u-bolt holes slightly and it took hours!
 

K2MSmith

Member III
I would try to get a wrench around those flats on the rods and see if they can be screwed up or down. If they move relatively easily I wouldn't worry about the threads in the aluminum cylinder. If they are frozen then there could be corrosion issues. The good news is that any moisture making its way towards that area has to pass through the cabin first and would likely evaporate. And your photos dont seem to show any obvious signs of water ingress or corrosion. More likely is that the water would get into and damage the aluminum blocks that sit at the top of the rods under the deck. I had a local machine shop make up some new blocks out of a special high strength aluminum. I don’t recall the exact type but I know it was high strength because I had to file one of the u-bolt holes slightly and it took hours!
I think that’s a good approach. Even if you could unscrew the rods completely, you then have the problem of reassembly and getting the threads to line up If the aluminum cylinders slide or turn. That doesn’t look like it’s possibly without carving up the interior from what I can tell .

The deck plate(s) interior was not visible due to headliner zippers stuck , so I have to work on that . If any of the u-bolts look corroded , it seems we have some sources for new ones . ( albeit expensive). Allied Titanium has titanium versions for the hobie 33 ( also navtec rigging hw I believe ) . It is a pricey but not NASA price levels . They said they could make it if I provide a drawing in case their hobie 33 parts are not the same . Not sure lead time.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
One caveat.... those "flats" on the SS rod are subtle. No place for the tired old 8" adjustable wrench at the bottom of the tool box. (Not specifically for this problem, but I have learned this lesson on other parts over the years.)
Far better to buy a quality end wrench exactly fitting this size, if you do not already have a roll-up pouch of SAE combination wrenches and another pouch for metric. I bought those sets at an annual sale from Sears, many years ago, and have benefitted often, including during our current re-fit project.
Not that you would make the same bone headed errors as I... ! :(
 

bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Loren makes a good point on the wrench flats. Adjustable wrench won’t cut it! It seems strange that there would not be a way to easily access the wrench flats and aluminum cylinders. Is there a way to create an access panel that would be hidden by the cushion?
 

K2MSmith

Member III
Loren makes a good point on the wrench flats. Adjustable wrench won’t cut it! It seems strange that there would not be a way to easily access the wrench flats and aluminum cylinders. Is there a way to create an access panel that would be hidden by the cushion?
I was able to grab the flats with my hand , but there is not enough room inside to clear the length of the wrench. I like your idea of a hatch . It looks like if you cut away a 8x3” port right above the white painted wood that covers the tank, you would have access to the flats and could put a regular open end wrench on it from the inside of the boat .
I Also found a 50.00 endoscope that you can connect to your iPhone . ( it has good ratings on amazon) . I’m going to see if I can use it to see where the threads screw into the aluminum .
 

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