Standing rigging replacement: advice sought

[N.A.]

While sailing today... my port lower shrouds (on my E34) came off the mast and fell to the deck. Luckily wind was low and I had been too lazy to put up the main, so mast was not even strained. Still, let the sheet run immediately and then rolled in the jib.

Pretty irritated; standing rigging was replaced 9 years ago (before I got the boat, but by a reputable place), and I have had it inspected regularly when I take the boat in. Not sure what failed, but maybe the end of the bolt through the mast, or the nut on said bolt came off... cannot tell from the deck (end of bolt now inside mast.) And yes, I guess I should have been checking more often with binoculars, though unsure whether this is something that would have caught.

Anyway... I am moving up my (already-planned) standing rigging replacement to... now.

--> Advice appreciated: what should I be sure to do? I know this is going to be financially painful (I do not have time to do the stuff myself), but worse would be to forget something that then causes grief...

Things on the list include:
Mast itself:
- Have yard check for mast corrosion
- repaint mast (it's painted, not anodized)... how important is that? If it's just cosmetic, I don't need to spend the $ for looks.)
- some paint on end of boom is bubbling (how bad is it if that happens? small area)... so check boom for corrosion, maybe repaint boom?
- new mast boot (current one leaks)
Standing rigging:
- replace everything with new
- chainplates... these go through the deck to tie-rods that run in front of the shelves in the cabin; not excited about digging into the deck to get at them. Thinking of leaving them alone... unless you tell me this is stupid.
Parts:
- new roller furling (Harken Mk IV Unit 1... but maybe go to Unit 2 or Ocean models... current one is very hard to furl in any significant wind.)
- all sheaves in boom/mast (c.f. comment re halyards -- this would be time to change to 5/16" sheaves if I really should)
- VHF coax with low-loss new coax
- new wiring for everything in the mast
- new VHF antenna
- LED tricolor/deck/steaming lights
- wind instrument
- will get new halyards and maybe reefing clew lines while I'm doing all this... current ones probably ~ 10+ years old. May not go to dyneema though -- cabintop clutches will not handle 5/16", and replacing those is just yet more expense... unless you tell me to reconsider.
** NOT planning to replace traveler or mainsheet tackle... unless that is stupid? That's an expensive tackle, so I just carry spares for a couple of blocks in case anything fails. But does everyone re-up these? Set is probably 27 years old. Traveler seems to be working fine (though I don't use it much, since that's a hassle singlehanded and tacking regularly.)
Extras: (depends on quote/cost for all the above...)
- add track for whisker-pole attachment
- add topping lift for same (not a Kenyon spar; there is no current topping lift)
- I have two jib halyards, but no spinnaker halyard/crane to lift it out past roller furling. Is this worth setting up?

Anyway, suddenly planning to get this work done sooner than anticipated, and any suggestions/thoughts/advice would be deeply appreciated.

PS: Wasn't sure if this should be a new thread, or appended to this one. Decided to try new for ease of discovery by later searches, and to keep the other thread from exceeding 4 pages... but feel free to tell me to move it to the (very helpful) existing thread, which is

Standing rigging estimates?

I will restate that 17K is a very hefty sum for this type work Only if you can't afford it. The cost for having 'stuff' done on boats is somewhere around $150./hour. Give or Take (probably depending on where you are, as well). It does not matter to the worker if they are...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[bgary]

I'd be very curious to find out what failed. In particular (*)
-- did the t-fittings fail?
-- did the swages fail?
-- did the slot in the mast fail?
-- were they somehow so loose that they just fell out of the slot?

Very odd that they both did that at the same moment. It'd stretch my imagination to think that two separate shrouds had identical failures at the same time.

(*) I say that assuming that the shrouds are the t-fitting as commonly used by Ericson in Kenyon masts in the 80s, but you mentioned a through-bolt, so for-sure that would be the first thing I'd examine.

 

[N.A.]

Looks like the bolt failed (or nut came off the bolt or something.) Starboard lowers are still connected to that side of the bolt, which now protrudes several inches from that side of the mast. The stainless plate fittings the shrouds connect to (and which the bolt holds to the mast) look fine, shrouds still attached to them fine... easy to see since they are now on the deck : ( [Aside: both lower port shrouds attach to plates which are both held to the mast by the same bolt. So not surprising both came off at once if it was a bolt issue.] So, not swages, bolt hole in mast looks ok from the deck... I suspect the bolt, or nut or whatever's on the end of that bolt.

Don't know what slot you refer to; I do not have a Kenyon spar (my boat built by Pacific Seacraft; spar is Lefiell, an aerospace company which once, but no longer, made masts/spars) -- everything is held on by a bolt through the mast just below the spreaders.

 

[K2MSmith]

While sailing today... my port lower shrouds (on my E34) came off the mast and fell to the deck. Luckily wind was low and I had been too lazy to put up the main, so mast was not even strained. Still, let the sheet run immediately and then rolled in the jib.

Pretty irritated; standing rigging was replaced 9 years ago (before I got the boat, but by a reputable place), and I have had it inspected regularly when I take the boat in. Not sure what failed, but maybe the end of the bolt through the mast, or the nut on said bolt came off... cannot tell from the deck (end of bolt now inside mast.) And yes, I guess I should have been checking more often with binoculars, though unsure whether this is something that would have caught.

Anyway... I am moving up my (already-planned) standing rigging replacement to... now.

--> Advice appreciated: what should I be sure to do? I know this is going to be financially painful (I do not have time to do the stuff myself), but worse would be to forget something that then causes grief...

Things on the list include:
Mast itself:
- Have yard check for mast corrosion
- repaint mast (it's painted, not anodized)... how important is that? If it's just cosmetic, I don't need to spend the $ for looks.)
- some paint on end of boom is bubbling (how bad is it if that happens? small area)... so check boom for corrosion, maybe repaint boom?
- new mast boot (current one leaks)
Standing rigging:
- replace everything with new
- chainplates... these go through the deck to tie-rods that run in front of the shelves in the cabin; not excited about digging into the deck to get at them. Thinking of leaving them alone... unless you tell me this is stupid.
Parts:
- new roller furling (Harken Mk IV Unit 1... but maybe go to Unit 2 or Ocean models... current one is very hard to furl in any significant wind.)
- all sheaves in boom/mast (c.f. comment re halyards -- this would be time to change to 5/16" sheaves if I really should)
- VHF coax with low-loss new coax
- new wiring for everything in the mast
- new VHF antenna
- LED tricolor/deck/steaming lights
- wind instrument
- will get new halyards and maybe reefing clew lines while I'm doing all this... current ones probably ~ 10+ years old. May not go to dyneema though -- cabintop clutches will not handle 5/16", and replacing those is just yet more expense... unless you tell me to reconsider.
** NOT planning to replace traveler or mainsheet tackle... unless that is stupid? That's an expensive tackle, so I just carry spares for a couple of blocks in case anything fails. But does everyone re-up these? Set is probably 27 years old. Traveler seems to be working fine (though I don't use it much, since that's a hassle singlehanded and tacking regularly.)
Extras: (depends on quote/cost for all the above...)
- add track for whisker-pole attachment
- add topping lift for same (not a Kenyon spar; there is no current topping lift)
- I have two jib halyards, but no spinnaker halyard/crane to lift it out past roller furling. Is this worth setting up?

Anyway, suddenly planning to get this work done sooner than anticipated, and any suggestions/thoughts/advice would be deeply appreciated.

PS: Wasn't sure if this should be a new thread, or appended to this one. Decided to try new for ease of discovery by later searches, and to keep the other thread from exceeding 4 pages... but feel free to tell me to move it to the (very helpful) existing thread, which is

Standing rigging estimates?

I will restate that 17K is a very hefty sum for this type work Only if you can't afford it. The cost for having 'stuff' done on boats is somewhere around $150./hour. Give or Take (probably depending on where you are, as well). It does not matter to the worker if they are...

ericsonyachts.org

I’m also in the sf bay and I had my standing rigging (E33) replaced last summer. It was an extremely frustrating process and took 3x the time that was originally promised.

I -strongly- recommend that you find a rigger that will give you a written purchase order with bill of materials and all parts / labor costs totaled before the work is done . If they discuss any additional projects while the project is underway , make sure they are added/itemized in the purchase order ( or separate purchase order created for those additions) . There are riggers in this town that will provide you with an “estimate” , then when you get the final bill , it may be double the cost you originally expected. If the rigger will not agree to a written purchase order with a fixed price , move on. Do not do work with that company.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I'd sure do a major freak-out if that happened to us. But as I read your description of what happened, I don't think it's cause to rush into replacing all the standing rigging just yet. It appears to be localized to a failure of the though-bolt connection. If it were me, I'd have that looked at (I don't climb masts, afraid of heights) and see what happened. This would be an opportunity for you to begin a relationship with a rigger and see if you like them. If it's a simple replacement of that bolt and they approve the rest of the rig, then you can begin a more methodical process of getting everything replaced. Sounds to me like you're asking all the right questions. And thanks for the story which motivates me to do a good walk-around checking all the bolts and pins on our boat.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I have posted before on this subject and your experience confirms my own; replacing rigging does not ensure safety. I have replace the rigging 3X in the 33 years I have owned my Tartan 37 and the only failure I ever had was a lower forward that failed a couple months after being replaced. I think the swage fitting was not correctly done and it cracked and separated in a storm on the Yucatan Strait in a storm. Luckily, nothing came down. Regular inspection is important. Don't rely on the boatyard to do this. Learn to do it yourself.

 

[bigd14]

I would want to first drop the mast and determine exactly what happened and fix that, then see what else might be aged out or damaged. I wouldn’t automatically replace everything you describe. If you drop the mast it’s a good time to fix up what you want like adding a new furler. If it’s only the through bolt that lost the nut (that’s what I suspect) it should be an easy fix although I would probably replace the forestay too as a preventative measure. Good luck getting it sorted and glad you didn't lose the rig.

 

[bigd14]

And thanks for the story which motivates me to do a good walk-around checking all the bolts and pins on our boat.

I do this 3-4x a year. The last time I found a missing split ring that apparently had been pulled out by the jib sheet. But I missed that the bolts connecting the boom end fitting to the boom were loose and later found one of them lying on the deck which gave me about 5 minutes of extreme anxiety trying to figure out its provenance.

 

[N.A.]

I am quoting this out... want to make sure I do this task right for sure.

Any advice re; local SF Bay area riggers (people have suggested Rogue Rigging and Hansen Rigging) would be appreciated. Feel free to PM me if you don't want to opine publicly on local people -- I get it. Hansen has a great reputation, but I'm a little concerned Hansen is mainly racers, and I'm not a racer so might be a low priority. Rogue also has strong recommendations, but seems t be a smaller shop. Any advice appreciated.