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Strongtrack (TidesMarine) question

N.A.

E34 / SF Bay
Hello folks-

I was going to get a strongtrack as part of getting a new main, but am told (by the combination sailmaker/TidesMarine) that the groove opening near the gooseneck to insert things into the track (which in my mast is opens up the groove only on the port side, and not for very may inches) must be cut out on both sides and extended a couple of inches higher in order to get the strongtrack in. In practice this seems reasonable, but... cutting the (surely expensive) mast...

@footrope discussed something like this 7 years ago (link below), but so many of you have strongtracks that I figure this is a known issue: what's involved in cutting out the mast track to make room? Do I need a boatyard, or just a Dremel tool? What is the likelihood of wrecking my (painted, not anodized) mast and being in for... crap, whatever a new mast and rigging would be)?

I have suddenly become cautious re: Strongtrack installation, but suspect that may be unneccessary. Advice/comment appreciated.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
What model boat and year? Kenyon spar? Can you post up a picture of the present slot where the slugs are fed in?
 

N.A.

E34 / SF Bay
@Christian Williams Great; I had hoped that would be the case. Thanks!

@Loren Beach : if it still matters -- mainly does if there is something I should know about doing the cutting, or if there is a caveat based on what you see below -- picture attached (would take a better one, but can't get back to boat until Sat. Did not know I would need to cut mast until today when sailmaker talked to Tidesmarine. Would have posted earlier, but took me to find an image of something else that contained this part of the boat.) I do not know if the spar is Kenyon -- where would it say? The end of the boom only has the boat model (E350 -- it appears to be an E34-2 built by Pac. Seacraft after they bought the molds; layout and rig dimensions match 34-2) molded in to the end. The existing cutout is behind the little black plate in the picture, which gives an idea of size and location; there is no corresponding cutout on the other side. Per the sailmaker's conversation with Tidesmarine, "both sides do need to be cut out. It would be better to also open the slot up 1-2" taller for easier installation. It will be hard so close to the gooseneck so a bigger opening would make life much easier." I think the last comment is re: the sail, not installing the Strongtrack; for reference the existing cutout (if not obvious from the image) is ~ 2" tall probably.
 

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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
From the picture it does not look like the Kenyon spar that went on many of the 80's Ericson's. The gooseneck attachment is different.
As Christian points out, a small die grinder like a Dremel might do to lengthen or widen the slot feed point. I am not a rigger, and that's the person to advise you.
If there is still a visible logo on the spar, it might a Sparcraft, but that's just a guess.
What year is your boat? The HIN will show that, along with the code for the builder.
 

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
That looks like my Lefeill mast. If it is, indeed the slot is too narrow. My local sailmaker told me the same thing. The slot has to be widened to accept even the narrowest Strong Track.
 

peaman

Sustaining Member
i am having a Tides track installed on my mast, and the rigger told me they would need to enlarge the gate area due to the size difference between the Tides Marine luff slides versus the older nylon slides which are presently on my sail.

Enlarging the gate should be easy and safe, since you should only be cutting away part of a "flange" which encloses the slot itself. The integrity of the mast is in the walls of the mast and interior part of the slot. Hopefully, you will have all of the correct parts (track, luff slides, gate closure fitting) on hand before you cut anything, so you will be able to proceed with confidence.
 

N.A.

E34 / SF Bay
@Loren Beach : The boat is a 1998; and thanks, @peaman , I'll call a local boatyard and talk with a rigger, though using a Dremel seems within my reach.

@Afrakes : Thanks! Googling them turns up a post indicating that Pacific Seacraft used them for all their spars, so it seems likely, especially as the diagrams on their website look similar. There are online suggestions that they closed their marine division 6+ years ago, and a call to the company confirms this, with no known place continuing to supply (there were rumors someone had acquired the rights, but Lefiell did not know, other than "maybe someplace in Lake Forest (IL, I assume).

Did you end up widening the slot/putting on a strongtrack (or do you have opinions on the advisability of that)?

Does anyone know: if I/a rigger mess this up, and I do need a new mast, is it "easy" to get a workable replacement from some other manufacturer, or will it be an immense problem?
 

Afrakes

Sustaining Member
I was told that the entire slot, over the length of the mast, would have to be widened as well as the mast gate. I decided not to do the investment.
I lubricate the slot and the sail, though needing assistance, does descend easily enough. I tend not to solo. Someone takes the helm and I go forward to assist the sail.
 

N.A.

E34 / SF Bay
Thanks; my mast fits one of the strongtrack template sizes, so it should be fine all the way up; it's just the bottom entrance to install the track that seems to be the issue. I'm a bit inclined to go for it.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
FWIW, we have a similar size rig, and I get by pretty well for hoisting the main by spraying "MacLube" on the standard plastic slugs once or twice a season. Strong (r) track is a nice product, but perhaps you can get by without it. If you have all full battens they might cause more binding, but we have a 2+2 scheme with only the top two being full length. No particular problem with them.
 
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goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Here are my notes start-to-finish on installing the SailTrack.

1. How to order Tides SailTrack
2. How to install Tides SailTrack
3. How to install sail slides for the Tides SailTrack

The installer wants a larger opening so that the track can be slid up the existing luff without kinking. I believe virtually every mast has to be cut open a bit in order for the track to be inserted. There is an explicit space requirement in the installation instructions.

Working aluminum is more like working wood than like steel. It's quite easy to drill, cut, and grind.
 

Shankara

Member II
A friend two slips over just installed one last weekend. He thought he was going to have to cut out the opening, but then found that removing the boom and boom hardware attached to the mast, gave him enough room and bend needed to serve the slide up the track.

Before the company sent the track, they sent keys for various measurements. He was able to get the exact dimensions to make sure it would fit - and to get the correct size sent. When the track was sent, it came with a test piece meant for sliding all the way up old track with a halyard, as a test run.

His first attempt at muscling it up, which became stuck halfway up, was abandoned. He then pulled it out, and used a dremel tool just under the opening to slightly angle the inside of the opening for a more gentle insertion. Two more attempts and it was a success. He said he was very sore afterwards.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I helped our club electrician pull new wiring thru pvc tubes inside our 500 foot headwalk. He had a squirt bottle of extremely slippery blue liquid that, in his trade, is called "Smurf Juice". :)
You might shop around for a lubricant for such work. 50 feet of spar is a long ways to push that rigid piece of plastic. I would guess that any water-soluble similar product would suffice.
And if possible, do the install on a hot day, when the plastic track is more limber.
 
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goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
A friend two slips over just installed one last weekend. He thought he was going to have to cut out the opening, but then found that removing the boom and boom hardware attached to the mast, gave him enough room and bend needed to serve the slide up the track.

Before the company sent the track, they sent keys for various measurements. He was able to get the exact dimensions to make sure it would fit - and to get the correct size sent. When the track was sent, it came with a test piece meant for sliding all the way up old track with a halyard, as a test run.

His first attempt at muscling it up, which became stuck halfway up, was abandoned. He then pulled it out, and used a dremel tool just under the opening to slightly angle the inside of the opening for a more gentle insertion. Two more attempts and it was a success. He said he was very sore afterwards.
The older I get the more I find value in reading the fun manual and following the directions….
 

peaman

Sustaining Member
extremely slippery blue liquid that, in his trade, is called "Smurf Juice".
Lube is commonly used for "pulling wires" in the electrical trade, so any electrical supply, and almost certainly big box hardware stores should have it. Not necessarily blue, but useful and inexpensive. It proved to be very effective for pulling new wiring through an original vinyl hose wire-way, and it cleaned up with a paper towel.
 

N.A.

E34 / SF Bay
Thanks, folks!

I have decided to go for it; have someone with rigging experience who says they can help me sort it out. Once done, I'll post an update for anyone finding this in the future so they know how it went.

Very much appreciate the advice/help!
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Tides Marine SailTrack system (year 2015, E 32-3)

I installed over Christmas. My mainsail always went up pretty well until the last ten feet. Then I need the winch. It never dropped easily, and I usually had to go to the cabin house to haul it down, an annoyance in harbor and inconvenient when reefing in a breeze.

The SailTrack is an easy installation and it does look pretty yar. Enlargement of the luff gate is usually necessary, but easy enough to do. The new external track mounts in the original and looks like it has always been there. The kit comes with new luff slides, which may require a sailmaker to install.

14072.attach



I'd say the sail goes up easier--but I still need the winch for the last few feet. It does drop like a falling piano, which is nice. Overall, a necessary improvement. After 5,000 miles this simple upgrade is one of the best changes I've ever made to a sailboat.
 

driftless

Member III
Blogs Author
If you end up lengthening/opening up your mast gate yourself to accommodate the track install, consider using a flush cut bit on a router. Very simple, very little chance of mistake, and a very clean result. Carbide bit cuts aluminum like butter.

 
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