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Stuffing Box Hell

wynkoop

Member III
I went with a traditional stuffing box partly because I did not want the possibility of catastrophic failure.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Chapter 2 - A Small Victory

5 hours of work today rewarded me with a the old stuffing box being freed from the messy mass of glass matt.

Tools used:

Vibrating tool with bimetal blade

Wood chisel

Hammer

Small Japanese draw saw

Vice grips

Block of wood

dock line

Block of wood

Screw Driver

I started with cutting into the mass of cloth and resin at the front of the stuffing box with the vibrator. I then shifted over to the small draw saw since it bent to conform to the shape of the hull.

When I had that glob free I moved to using the vibrator at the sides of the stuffing box aft. There was no way to complete the job with that tool though.

Time for the wood chisel tapped gently around and under the stuffing box.

The astute reader will remember that I cut the stuffing box hose from fore to aft and was able to open it up.

So next came tapping the flat head screw driver down along side the stern tube INSIDE the now useless stuffing box hose.

Nest a vice grip tied to a line which I heaved on to attempt to pull out the hose clamp. Small movement, but no real joy.

Next more tapping on the hose clamp THROUGH the old hose followed by tapping on the hose at the rear with blows directed to the bow.

This is what brought the eventual joy! The stuffing box remains began to twist and that twist broke it free from the mass of glass and matt. Continued tapping eventually totally freed the stuffing box ramains.

There was much rejoicing!

I still need to get in under and next to the stern tube to grind down some of the remaining mass to allow easy and full fitment of the stuffing box.

Sadly my test fit not only showed that I need to clean out a bit more of the mess, but also that the stuffing box tube is TOO BIG for the stern tube!

Needless to say tomorrow I call the vendor I purchased my stuffing box from to see if they have a 3/4 that has a slightly smaller hose. If that brings no joy I expect the solution will be to wrap the stern tube with self sealing silicon tape to take up the extra space. I would like thoughts on this idea.

My shaft alley is no where as nice as the above. I have a very rough area with glass fibers much more pronounced. More photos to follow once I transfer them from the phone and cut them down to a size the forum likes.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Regarding dripless shaft seals:

The possibility of catastrophic failure is rather low, or I assure you I wouldn't have a dripless.

Examination of any approved installation will suggest a robust product that works in an obvious and non-mysterious way.

The bellows does need to be replaced on a schedule, something like every 7 years. That requires a haulout. Mine is probably 10 years old, and my haulout has been delayed by the mess we're all in, but it looks fine nonetheless.

It is true that one of our local boatyards declined (policy has since changed) to install dripless shaft seals after a failure in the Transpac. Much was made of this at the time. I reason that the vast, successful experience of commercial and pleasure vessels using dripless shaft seals without incident trumps individual calamity and (in the local case) hysterical not-my-fault blamecasting.

Personally I don;t think dripless technology is even controversial. Tenders' experience warns of fuel spills, note taken. I do carry latex and hose clamps for an offshore emergency such as failure of the bellows, but the catastrophy would be only loss of motor power (you could still run the engine in neutral for battery charging).
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi Brett,

I replaced the hose on the shaft log years ago. I remember an issue with the size. The boatyard was not able to source the 3/4" shaft log hose and they recommended a reinforced hose (maybe exhaust hose) that fit.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Just off the phone with Buck-Algonquin and they suggest a hose that fits the stern tube and fits inside their hose. They said it sounds like the stuffing box on the E-27 was a custom job for Ericsson. They make nothing with a small enough hose and know of no one that does. So shortly I am off to the auto supply with my old stuffing box in pieces, the new one and my micrometer to get a "bushing hose".

Hope like hell to have Silver Maiden swimming this week, but also have depth finder issues, so want to see if I can replace the transducer on this hauling as well.
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Just off the phone with Buck-Algonquin and they suggest a hose that fits the stern tube and fits inside their hose. They said it sounds like the stuffing box on the E-27 was a custom job for Ericsson. They make nothing with a small enough hose and know of no one that does. So shortly I am off to the auto supply with my old stuffing box in pieces, the new one and my micrometer to get a "bushing hose".

Hope like hell to have Silver Maiden swimming this week, but also have depth finder issues, so want to see if I can replace the transducer on this hauling as well.
Best wishes to you! Buck-Algonquin's solution sounds like a good one to me. I hope you find exactly what you need and can put this to bed quickly. It certainly sounds as though you are in a much better place with this project than you were just a few days ago.

I am planning to replace my stuffing box hose (though probably not the box itself) at my next haul out. I'm not having problems with it but it is almost certainly original and therefore quite old. Genuine stuffing box hose, such as what you are using (and I will use), is really bullet proof stuff. This is a job you will not have to revisit for as long as you will own that boat.
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
On the depthsounder: I removed my transducer throughhull years ago and patched the hole with epoxy and fiberglass, never to return. You can mount the transducer in an oil bath inside the hull - a far simpler setup.
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Having had both a stuffing box (1992-95, and present) and a shaft seal (1995-2019), my problems with dripless shaft seals are (1) the failure state (sudden gushing) compared to the corresponding condition for the stuffing box (slowly increased dripping), and (2) the steps necessary to replace the bellows (and possibly the face seal). You absolutely have to take the shaft coupling off the shaft to get the new parts on. That can be a very difficult and time-consuming task. It can sometimes be impossible, and require the shaft to be cut. Just not worth it in my book when less than an hour you can repack a stuffing box in the water.
 

wynkoop

Member III
On the depthsounder: I removed my transducer throughhull years ago and patched the hole with epoxy and fiberglass, never to return. You can mount the transducer in an oil bath inside the hull - a far simpler setup.

When I still had the boat in the water I tried putting the new transducer in a bag of water and placing that in the hull for a test. The depth sounder got nothing. Can you point me to some info on this oil bath thing. I really do not want to change my transducer. The change in depth sounder is because the display on the old one had an LCD bleed. Perhaps I should just get the old one fixed.

I tried to get in touch with Norcross Marine to get specs on the depth sounder to determine if it would be compatible with my old transducer, but they really have NO SUPPORT in spite of what they say in their videos and web site. Never deal with Norcross Marine. I have been trying for weeks to get information from them that is not in the almost nothing of a manual they provide.

Got hose today for the stuffing box. Had to go to rubber wholesaler in Brooklyn, but they worked out finding a hose that fit inside the supplied hose and had an ID that matched the stern tube.
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
A rubber wholesaler...gotta love NYC. Wonder where the next-closest rubber wholesaler who would talk to you is located. Malaysia, maybe?

There’s a lot online about in-hull transducer mounting. I had mine going for a season after I filled in the throughhull, but the unit died and I haven’t installed the new one yet. I epoxied and glasses a section of 4” PVC to the deck, contoured roughly to the shape of the hull. Then I filled it with toilet mounting wax, heated to liquid form. Then I mounted the transducer to a 4” PVC pipe cap, and pressed that over/into the pipe.
 

Mark F

Contributing Partner
Blogs Author
Hi Brett,
Good to hear you found a solution for your hose. Please keep us updated on your progress. I'm thinking this is something other Ericsons built with A-4's (3/4" shaft) will need to deal with at some point.
 

toddster

Curator of Broken Parts
Blogs Author
Yeah, hose... You can read the Mainsail article quoted above about using the right kind of hose. My boat went who-knows-how-many years with the wrong kind of hose and - well, it didn't fail on my watch but it looked pretty sketchy and rotten.
As mentioned in another thread or two, somewhere, I had a hard time finding the right hose for the 3/4" shaft packing box. There is a Buck Algonquin part number for it, but it turns out that it's only listed in the "bulk" section, not the list of standard hoses. So most retailers don't list it. It comes in 12-inch lengths. This one I believe. The first time I looked, the BA catalog wasn't yet digitized, and it couldn't be searched.
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
My new stuffing box came from Buck Algonquin with a chunk of that hose on it, and it fit onto the tube of my 3/4” shaft unremarkably. Not sure if my shaft tube is the standard size, though.
 

Rocinante33

Contributing Partner
Buck Algonquin did not have one to fit my hose, but they were super nice and referred me to Marine Hardware in Seattle. They are helpful there, too.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Tenders the standard Buck Algonquin 3/4 stuffing box has a 1 3/4 inch hose. The stern tube on the E-27 is smaller than that, thus the need for a bushing of some sort.

I discovered today there is a nearly identical thread on the board, but no real resolution. The idea of a hose bushing was aired in that thread as well.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Episode 3: The Stuffing Box Strikes Back

So today I went to the yard with the idea of installing the stuffing box with my "hose bushing". First I did a test fit of the new hose over the stern tube. It was a very tight fit, but I got it 1/2 way on before deciding to remove it and fit it into the Stuffing box hose.

It fit snuggly into the stuffing box, but then when I tried to put the whole thing on the stern tube it just was not happening. Seems the "bushing hose" is too thick walled for my purposes and it needed to expand a bit to slip over the stern tube, so that little expansion is not happening when it is inside the 1 3/4 stuffing box hose.

I pulled out my micrometer today and can now confirm that the OD of the stern tube is 1 3/8 inch OD. The BA Stuffing box is 1 3/4 inch ID. That is a 3/8 inch difference. I need to find a hose with 1 3/8 ID and a wall thickness of no more than 3/16 inch. Not sure where I am going to find that.

A second thought is to use a pvc sleeve epoxied over the stern tube. 1 1/4 inch Sch 40 has an ID of 1 3/8 according to my micrometer and an OD of 1 21/32. I am not sure how well that will work, but I plan to test fit the BA stuffing box on a piece of PVC tomorrow.

In the meantime I tried a test fit of the BA stuffing box over the stern tube to find that I have to take out more of the fiberglass mess for it to clear! I can not get in there well enough with my vibrating tool or my standard drill with a sanding cylinder of disc, so tomorrow purchase of a dremmel clone from Harbor Freight is in order.

I would like thoughts on beefing up the diameter of the stern tube with epoxied in place PVC. If anyone has a source for 3/4 inch stuffing boxes with 1 3/8 inch hose I would appreciate it. Googling since obtaining the exact stern tube size has so far brought no joy.
 

wynkoop

Member III
For anyone with a 1 3/8 inch stern tube like the E-27 has I have found a source of stuffing box hose in the UK.

 
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