• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Teaching myself to splice...have a question

JPS27

Member III
One of my mast projects is to improve my topping lift situation. Based on ideas on another thread I posted, I thought I'd go with dyneema from the masthead to a few feet above the boom end. Then run 5/16" sta-set up to a low friction ring (ronstan) on a brumel splice at the boom end of the TL. At the mast head I have a small block along the lines of what was there prior. Time is a factor because I don't want to hold up putting the mast up because i'm figuring out things that a rigger could do in 30 minutes. But I do like the diy aspect, so...

How do you put eye splice on hardware at each end of the dyneema? I'm trying brumel splices with 7/64 amsteel. Seems like it's not possible because at some point you have pull the line through itself (so to speak). I've searched youtube, but all videos are about splicing on hardware at one end only.

Am I densely missing something? thanks.
Jay
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
If I'm understanding the question ... instead of splicing the upper hardware into the upper eye, use a luggage tag loop to attach a Brummel-locked eye to the pin or other anchor point at the masthead (spreads the load and wear a bit), and then make the bottom eye just barely big enough to go over the LFR.
 

JPS27

Member III
Thanks, nquigley. I think you understand my question. But I'm not sure I can visual your simple solution. In the pic I'm pointing to where the small shackle was originally. The TL was connected with a bowline. I think I can do better. So you're suggesting just make the brummel locked eye and pull the entire line thru the loop luggage style so it snugs up against the pin?
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5724.jpeg
    IMG_5724.jpeg
    179.9 KB · Views: 16

Tin Kicker

Sustaining Member
Moderator
There's a great YouTube channel by an engineer who is a rock climber because he has done a lot of load testing on various types of splices. I knew knots were bad but like Brummell because they are quick & easy, so was surprised by how much he found they weakened Dyneema. Check out HowNOT2

 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
Thanks, nquigley. I think you understand my question. But I'm not sure I can visual your simple solution. In the pic I'm pointing to where the small shackle was originally. The TL was connected with a bowline. I think I can do better. So you're suggesting just make the brummel locked eye and pull the entire line thru the loop luggage style so it snugs up against the pin?
Yup - that's what I was suggesting. It also spreads the load - dyneema prefers not to bend at a tight angle. But, it's so over-engineered for a topping lift application that that won't matter. Do note that a topping lift is out in the uv all day - you'll want to plan on replacing it in about 5 years (or less in a high-uv location)
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
There's a great YouTube channel by an engineer who is a rock climber because he has done a lot of load testing on various types of splices. I knew knots were bad but like Brummell because they are quick & easy, so was surprised by how much he found they weakened Dyneema. Check out HowNOT2

As I recall, those videos (fun to watch for sure) stress-tested dyneema loops to their max. Even thought they showed that brummel-lock loops weaken the line, I recall that the breaking point was at an enormous psi (kN) force. - way way more than a topping lift will experience. ;-)
There was another video I saw with small diameter dyneema/Amsteel - if memory serves, the upshot was that 4 dyneema lines of ~1/4" size could lift my boat off the ground. It seems that about the only application on our boats where dyneema isn't suited is where we need to secure it in a jammer because it's so slippery.
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
While you’re at it (learning to splice dyneema), make some soft shackles - the method using the real crown knot. It’s fun and practical, and WM wants $30 for theirs! They have lots of uses on the boat. There’s nothing on the boat that needs a soft shackle made with line thicker than 5mm, and they get harder to made with bigger-gauge line. I’d suggest starting with ~3mm line to learn (cheap stuff), and go up to 4mm and 5mm if needed for strength. Have fun!
 

Alan Gomes

Sustaining Partner
Thanks, nquigley. I think you understand my question. But I'm not sure I can visual your simple solution. In the pic I'm pointing to where the small shackle was originally. The TL was connected with a bowline. I think I can do better. So you're suggesting just make the brummel locked eye and pull the entire line thru the loop luggage style so it snugs up against the pin?
Can't help you with your original question because I'm a splicing illiterate. But I was wondering about those cotter rings I see in the photo you attached. I know my rigger really dislikes them for anything mission critical because they can get ripped out by something catching on them. Perhaps that would not be possible in this case, but I was curious about it just the same.
 

JPS27

Member III
Can't help you with your original question because I'm a splicing illiterate. But I was wondering about those cotter rings I see in the photo you attached. I know my rigger really dislikes them for anything mission critical because they can get ripped out by something catching on them. Perhaps that would not be possible in this case, but I was curious about it just the same.
Thanks. The rings are just there so I can quickly pull pins if needed before finalizing and putting in cotter pins.
 

southofvictor

Member III
Blogs Author
How do you put eye splice on hardware at each end of the dyneema? I'm trying brumel splices with 7/64 amsteel. Seems like it's not possible because at some point you have pull the line through itself (so to speak). I've searched youtube, but all videos are about splicing on hardware at one end only.
Do I understand your question correctly? In a Brummel splice you're not pulling the entire line through itself, just a loop. You can work entirely on one end, then the other. I've seen easier to understand instructions out there but Colligo's aren't bad.

Colligo Brummel Splice
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
Do I understand your question correctly? In a Brummel splice you're not pulling the entire line through itself, just a loop. You can work entirely on one end, then the other. I've seen easier to understand instructions out there but Colligo's aren't bad.

Colligo Brummel Splice
I think JPS27 was trying to make Brummel loops that capture closed hardware (like a ring) inside the loop, but I'm not sure.
 

JPS27

Member III
Thanks for the information, Chris. Yes I was trying to put hardware on each end. But I'll try the eye only on one end.

I don't know my terminology but from I watched the simple brummel splice could fail if not constantly under load, correct. So, to avoid that you take an extra step of turning it in on itself for lack of a better description. Anyway, like I said, just learning here. Watching a lot of YouTubes. splicing is something I haven't done so I'm determined to teach myself. I've got time since the kids are grown. :)

I was watching a youtube by rigging doctor and one by emily and clark.
 

southofvictor

Member III
Blogs Author
Thanks for the information, Chris. Yes I was trying to put hardware on each end. But I'll try the eye only on one end.

I don't know my terminology but from I watched the simple brummel splice could fail if not constantly under load, correct. So, to avoid that you take an extra step of turning it in on itself for lack of a better description. Anyway, like I said, just learning here. Watching a lot of YouTubes. splicing is something I haven't done so I'm determined to teach myself. I've got time since the kids are grown. :)

I was watching a youtube by rigging doctor and one by emily and clark.
You can mount hardware in both ends, you just need to be precise in measuring the spots you make your loops. You work the hardware into the loop after you’ve made the splice and before you bury the end, that way you can work it tight before you bury.
 

nquigley

Sustaining Member
Thanks for the information, Chris. Yes I was trying to put hardware on each end. But I'll try the eye only on one end.

I don't know my terminology but from I watched the simple brummel splice could fail if not constantly under load, correct. So, to avoid that you take an extra step of turning it in on itself for lack of a better description. Anyway, like I said, just learning here. Watching a lot of YouTubes. splicing is something I haven't done so I'm determined to teach myself. I've got time since the kids are grown. :)

I was watching a youtube by rigging doctor and one by emily and clark.
No - a Brummel splice maintains it's integrity without the bury step. If you just make a loop and bury the short end segment in the long segment, it will work itself out when jostled when not under load. You can use lock-stitching to help the tail remain buried, but structurally, this is nowhere near as strong as a Brummel locking splice. Annoyingly, the Brummel's tail can also work itself out, but that doesn't affect the strength of the loop - just annoying - so it's usual to lock-stitch the buried tail in place.
 
Top