Thelonious Repair Plan in Oahu--for comment

[Christian Williams]

The drain hose of the chain locker became detached in heavy seas two hours offshore.
Considerable water entered sufficient to require Whale manual pumping 30/60 to assist the diaphragm pump. I returned to port. Also it was blowing steady 30 gusts to 35 and 40 with 6-foot seas, which is too much for the boat close hauled to windward.

This morning's damage survey revealed that the copper tube epoxied into the stem, to which the short 1/2" drain hose is attached, has broken off result of corrosion. Although some access is possible, especially if I enlarge the bulkhead, the proper repair is to remove the anchor pan and glass in a new hose connection through the stem.

That's work I'd rather do at home. So here's the current plan:

--Seal the hole in the stem with epoxy. It can be drilled out later.

--Seal the anchor well drain hole in the pan and also at the hose end. Anchor well will fill with water and not drain.

The chain locker is a trapezoid shape measuring in inches approx. 9 x 12 x 38. (The 12" depth is 9" at aft end, so it will drain). Call that roughly a rectangle 1' x 1' x 3' nd the volume is 3 square feet ( a trapezoid has less volume). Water weighs about 65 pounds per cubic foot, so that's somewhere between 100 and 200 pounds of water in the well. Trivial as far as boaT trim goes.

My chain and rode already displaces nearly half the space and I can add two one-gallon empty jugs to displace more water. I don't see a full chain locker as a significant weight problem, and it can be pumped out during fair weather .

--What if the chain locker pan collapses? The pan is in excellent condition and the seal is good--no leaks or historical issues. It remains protected from green water by the lid, also in ex condition. I don't see it collapsing, which would be a catastrophe in any case.

--WhAT if the stem plug fails? A hole packed with thickened epoxy shouldn't fail. The force is ouTside-in, and I'll leave a cap of epoxy on the outside.

Comments appreciated.

It looks like I will remain in port through the weekend. Weather says these heavy trades may reduce when thE high pressure moves, and not until. Locals agree it is not a good time to be offshore.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Christian,

That sounds like a good move. Were you having memories of Thelonious 1 and the return trip from Hawaii?!

 

[1911tex]

Christian, my thoughts as you asked for suggestions: How much does your anchor rode weigh, both chain and rope? Is there any use for anchor and rode on the way home? Remove it, stow it midships somewhere so as not to shift, plug up water exits from Chain locker as mentioned, employ the empty water jugs, as mentioned and as many odd sized jugs and foam blocks as necessary to take up water space in the locker. All the above should remove any thought water weight in the chain locker causing a collapse. You might also once the above is done, while in the slip, fill the chain locker with water and check out any possible internal leaks; if so patch 'em. Pump out the test water and head for home.

You are amazing!

 

[jtsai]

The drain hose of the chain locker became detached in heavy seas two hours offshore.
Considerable water entered sufficient to require Whale manual pumping 30/60 to assist the diaphragm pump. I returned to port. Also it was blowing steady 30 gusts to 35 and 40 with 6-foot seas, which is too much for the boat close hauled to windward.

This morning's damage survey revealed that the copper tube epoxied into the stem, to which the short 1/2" drain hose is attached, has broken off result of corrosion. Although some access is possible, especially if I enlarge the bulkhead, the proper repair is to remove the anchor pan and glass in a new hose connection through the stem.

That's work I'd rather do at home. So here's the current plan:

--Seal the hole in the stem with epoxy. It can be drilled out later.

--Seal the anchor well drain hole in the pan and also at the hose end. Anchor well will fill with water and not drain.

The chain locker is a trapezoid shape measuring in inches approx. 9 x 12 x 38. (The 12" depth is 9" at aft end, so it will drain). Call that roughly a rectangle 1' x 1' x 3' nd the volume is 3 square feet ( a trapezoid has less volume). Water weighs about 65 pounds per cubic foot, so that's somewhere between 100 and 200 pounds of water in the well. Trivial as far as boaT trim goes.

My chain and rode already displaces nearly half the space and I can add two one-gallon empty jugs to displace more water. I don't see a full chain locker as a significant weight problem, and it can be pumped out during fair weather .

--What if the chain locker pan collapses? The pan is in excellent condition and the seal is good--no leaks or historical issues. It remains protected from green water by the lid, also in ex condition. I don't see it collapsing, which would be a catastrophe in any case.

--WhAT if the stem plug fails? A hole packed with thickened epoxy shouldn't fail. The force is ouTside-in, and I'll leave a cap of epoxy on the outside.

Comments appreciated.

It looks like I will remain in port through the weekend. Weather says these heavy trades may reduce when thE high pressure moves, and not until. Locals agree it is not a good time to be offshore.

That is exactly what I did: epoxy the hole in the stem from outside and plug and anchor well drain well with butyl. It has been like that since May without single drop water in the bilge. I did encounter couple rough days when sailed from NC to Chesapeake Bay but nothing close to what you have experienced.

Line the anchor lid with household window/storm door gasket and tape the chain access hole as additional measure. Duck tape probably serves the same, if they stay put.

 

[Loren Beach]

A few years ago Lat 38 ran an article with input from a number of passage makers. Many of them said that once out of harbor (or sooner) they would remove their anchor from the bow and store it securely below decks. Some also re-stored the rode and chain. All was to reduce pitching by taking weight off of the bow.
If your anchor well is shallow enough that some potential water weight is not bothering you, might OK to replace the missing copper tube with an SS bolt with a rubber washer on each side, an SS washer against each donut, and tighten to cause a secure seal of the former hole.
Or...... if at the dock and having a store handy (?) with some thickened epoxy and some sand paper and acetone, just re-bed a new piece of tubing. Might want to replace the short connector tube to the anchor well, also.

"Armchair Sailing" advice given, while U wait!

 

[Rocinante33]

The drain hose of the chain locker became detached in heavy seas two hours offshore.
Considerable water entered sufficient to require Whale manual pumping 30/60 to assist the diaphragm pump. I returned to port. Also it was blowing steady 30 gusts to 35 and 40 with 6-foot seas, which is too much for the boat close hauled to windward.

This morning's damage survey revealed that the copper tube epoxied into the stem, to which the short 1/2" drain hose is attached, has broken off result of corrosion. Although some access is possible, especially if I enlarge the bulkhead, the proper repair is to remove the anchor pan and glass in a new hose connection through the stem.

That's work I'd rather do at home. So here's the current plan:

--Seal the hole in the stem with epoxy. It can be drilled out later.

--Seal the anchor well drain hole in the pan and also at the hose end. Anchor well will fill with water and not drain.

The chain locker is a trapezoid shape measuring in inches approx. 9 x 12 x 38. (The 12" depth is 9" at aft end, so it will drain). Call that roughly a rectangle 1' x 1' x 3' nd the volume is 3 square feet ( a trapezoid has less volume). Water weighs about 65 pounds per cubic foot, so that's somewhere between 100 and 200 pounds of water in the well. Trivial as far as boaT trim goes.

My chain and rode already displaces nearly half the space and I can add two one-gallon empty jugs to displace more water. I don't see a full chain locker as a significant weight problem, and it can be pumped out during fair weather .

--What if the chain locker pan collapses? The pan is in excellent condition and the seal is good--no leaks or historical issues. It remains protected from green water by the lid, also in ex condition. I don't see it collapsing, which would be a catastrophe in any case.

--WhAT if the stem plug fails? A hole packed with thickened epoxy shouldn't fail. The force is ouTside-in, and I'll leave a cap of epoxy on the outside.

Comments appreciated.

It looks like I will remain in port through the weekend. Weather says these heavy trades may reduce when thE high pressure moves, and not until. Locals agree it is not a good time to be offshore.

And apply good weatherstrip around the groove where the anchor chain well lid fits so as to prevent water ingress around that lid in the event of green water over the bow.

Also, to repair the drain (later on the mainland?), what about using something like this G-10 tubing?

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

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[Loren Beach]

Also, to repair the drain (later on the mainland?), what about using something like this G-10 tubing?

Great material, but this tube application calls for flexible tubing, I believe.

 

[Rocinante33]

Great material, but this tube application calls for flexible tubing, I believe.

Yes, but I think he will repair or replace the copper pipe stub over which the flex tubing attaches. That is what I would replace with the G-10 tubing and continue to have a piece of flexible tube between the stem and the anchor chain well.

This repair might be done with 3M 5200 to bind the G-10 tube to the hull. Easier than epoxy. If Christian can get the G-10 tube in small diameter in Honolulu. Big if!?!?!

 

[Martin King]

You didn't say where exactly the stub pipe broke off, but I'm guessing flush with the hull interior. If the hole is still lined with the remaining copper, make sure you try and sand it with something and run an acetone soaked rag through it before doing your epoxy plug. Capping it on the outside is a good idea. For what it's worth, I would get as much weight off the bow as possible before heading out again. You can fix her up proper after getting her back.

 

[goldenstate]

What if you buy a can of window insulating expansive foam DuPont “Great Stuff”(Home Depot or hardware store) and shoot it into a couple of garbage bags into your anchor locker? I think it is waterproof and would serve the same purpose as your milk jug idea and fill more void space?

Sealing up the drain hole would solve the intrusion problem as you suggest.

$.02 (?),

Tom

 

[Kenneth K]

Plug the hole as described and put 2" blue painter's tape over all the seams/openings in the lid. Smear a thin layer of silicone caulk over all the blue tape (except near the edges so you don't get it on your gelcoat).

I got almost 2 years out of such a temporary patch when I pulled a leaking deck fill plate. The caulk prevents the tape from peeling up or deteriorating and it allows you to pull it up in one long piece (painter's tape starts to deteriorate after a few months and then it peels off in small, annoying shards).

 

[footrope]

For a permanent repair you might consider a similar hose to a drain port (small thru-hull) on one side of the bow at the appropriate height. Weather stripping around the door edges will slow down the water intrusion. Have a good sail back.

 

[David Grimm]

I'm not familiar enough with the bow of my boat to even lend any armchair advice. But you just reminded me while on my last trip anchoring solo in Port Jeff NY I made sure to turn the windless circut breaket on well before I got into the cove. That breaker also turns on the anchor rinse hose pump. But the glassed in hose valve is busted and if you don't hook the hose and spray handle up in the beginning of the season the pressure wont build and shut the pump. It will pump the sea water, fill the anchor hatch and overflow down the chain hole and to my surprise flow all the way through many compartments into the bildge! After realizing my mistake I hooked the hose up listend for the bildge to stop running and went for the fridge full of cold beer. Long 14hr day. Now that you brought it to my attention I will investigate, repair the valve and check on the copper drian hose.

Enjoy Hawaii!

Many thanks,

Dave.

 

[kiwisailor]

Christian. That copper fitting is odd as my chain locker has a countersunk plastic hose fitting to the 1/2" hose. I'd suggest hunting down a plastic 1/2 hose fitting or even a marine thru-hole type would work oo. If you need to cut in an inspection hatch to the forward part of the chain locker to make access easier. See the following pics of the plastic drain fitting.

 

[Bepi]

Hope the Repairs go well.

 

[Christian Williams]

Thanks all for thinking through this with me. The locker drain and the stem opening are now both sealed with MarineRX, the WM epoxy putty. Looks like a Monday departure.

......

 

[N.A.]

Hello Christian-

Apologies; just saw this thread. Congrats on making it to Hawaii yet again - quite inspirational for some of the rest of us.


This is all probably too late to be of use, but in case it's not:

Re: the chain locker, I just had a good bit of work done on mine. Assuming the lockers are the same in my boat (1998) as yours, three thoughts:

- plugging bow: no problem.

- on my boat, the original design of the locker latch allowed... water to run in the latch into the forepeak. Not into any drain. Damnit. You can fix that -- for mine, it was where the latch goes into the underside of the deck proper -- was nothing there to prevent water going in that hole from running into the boat generally. Fixed with a half-tube with one end closed, all glassed in, so now in principle closed. FYI anyway -- you may have an extra place water can get into the boat other than the bottom drain hose.

- I would keep weight down in the locker, not so much for trim as to prevent any difficulty with the plastic lip cracking under load (bad, and probably at a bad time). 200 lb may not seem like much, but if your bow falls off a wave, e.g., you could be accelerating something a bit less than 100 kg of water by a good bit on top of the usual gravitational acceleration (9.8 m/s^2). E.g. if you fell off a 3m wave (assumed worst case) it's not hard to figure that you might easily pick up something like an additional g of acceleration, effectively doubling the force (weight) of the water in the chain locker loading what is (in my boat) a relatively thin plastic lip. That's a very rough calculation -- depending on a variety of factors it could be less, or maybe more. Rather then run a test to (any possible) failure, why not get a 1'x1'x3' piece of closed-cell foam, for instance, that would nicely displace almost all the volume in the locker, and not rattle around or anything. Put the anhcor and road below, secure the foam well in the locker, maybe tape the edges as suggested earlier in the thread. Now loading on the locker lip will be very low, and you can deal with it all once back. Or, of course, the empty jugs you mention do part of this. The chain may weight a good bit... Much more than the water they probably displace (metal for sure, but even the rode probably doesn't normally float). I'd be inclined to put it below (probably bottom of a cockpit locker) somewhere.

In any case, good luck on the return trip!

Best-

N

 

[Christian Williams]

The chain locker slidiing-pin latch is a known issue. Owners who have that design should note that the pin enters the deck core, and also may let water into the core of the lid. Pin path should be sealed and then re-drilled to protect the core from saturation.

All distance cruisers carry chain, anchor and windlass on the bow. It is not a good idea to put it anywhere else, not that there is anywhere else, because you may need it in a hurry. Fine for club racing, but on a heavy laden cruiser the pitching moment issue is theoretical. I did laboriously move anchor and rode aft on the 32-3, and saw no difference at all as a practical matter.

 

[dhill]

Glad you made it back to Hawaii safely! Glad you were able to get the boat back in order quickly!