time for a new toilet in the head - anyone replaced theirs recently?

[Andrew Means]

Our very old toilet in the head is leaking in multiple places (some grosser than others) and rather than spend days rebuilding the pump I think it's time we just put a new one in there.

I saw this one at Fisheries Supply and I think it should suit our needs pretty well.

Installation seems pretty simple - obviously we'll need to pump out the holding tank, and disconnect the existing one, but beyond that does anybody have any tips? Specifically, E27 owners, it looks like the toilet is held in place with bolts that go into the Floor, but I'm not sure how they're held in place on the opposite side of the fiberglass. If we have to drill new holes for them, how will we secure the bolts on the underside?

 

[Loren Beach]

Shop around, perhaps

Jabsco may be building a better product nowadays, but the similar one in our prior Niagara 26 was very poorly designed and constructed. I had to rebuild that @*^)$#^ pump almost every year for the ten years we owned that boat. It was our first boat with a proper marine head, and I thought that level of stinking maintenance was "normal."

When we bought the Ericson/Olson it came with a Raritan PH2 manual head. Since our boat had a lot of prior heavy, um, "use".... it seemed prudent to replace that one with a new one. Nowadays we go an easy decade with no problems, rebuilds, or attention at all, other than cleaning it and running some cooking oil thru its innards once in a while.

Those Jabsco heads are usually the "low price special" at the chandlers, but (strictly IMHO) they are not worth the aggrivation.

Opinions rendered on the cheap, depsit .02 please.

*Installation is usually with ss lag bolts into the base, which has a layer of plywood under it to hold the threads. Just epoxy in the old holes and pray that the prior owner put some sealant around the bolts to keep water from following down and rotting the plywood.


Loren

 

[Tom Metzger]

Ditto on Loren's recommendation. My PH2 is 25 years old with only new rubber parts. It's almost bullet proof. The good news is that parts are available if I ever need them.

 

[Frank Langer]

Andrew, while Loren and Tom are two of the true experts on this site, we have had the Jabsco you showed in our head for several years and have had no trouble at all. Parts are readily available for any repair that may be needed, and it works smoothly and looks compact and fits well.
Based on the price of so many other toilets, I don't have any hesitation in recommending the Jabsco.
Frank

 

[Andrew Means]

I'm still leaning toward it as well, if only because the vast majority of sailing we do is pretty low key - while we sail a ton in the summer it's almost always day sailing, and the average user of the head is skinny hipster girls. If we were going to be doing some serious cruising and/or living aboard then I would probably opt for a heavier duty one, but this model seems to have a relatively solid reputation.

Loren thanks for the note on the install - I reeeeeeally hope they sealed around the bolts, and I'll do so as well when I install the new one...

 

[Glyn Judson]

Replacing the head.

Andrew, Maybe I can pass on a few thought to consider for whatever head you end up buying. Clean out the old mounting holes and seal them with epoxy to prevent any water getting in them and making trouble on down the road. Drill the new holes to the proper size to accept stainless steel lag screws (West Marine or elsewhere) http://www.fastenersuperstore.com/bolts/Lag-Screws?gclid=CNyS0P_BhLMCFe9xQgodJQQAyw or fit a deck plate nearby, either on the horizontal or vertical for hand access beneath and use standard machine thread fasteners, washers and nuts below. A trick of mine is to stack four Nylon washers (West Marine or other chandlers) between the platform and the underside of each of the head mounting holes to raise the it slightly above the surface. Doing so will allow you to "flush" beneath the head from time to time with a tumbler of fresh water when dust, urine or sea water collects there. Four 3/8" Nylon washers stacked beneath each mount will raise the head 1/4" above the platform. Of course, be sure to properly bed the new fasteners to seal the holes in the platform. Loren brings up a good point in that you might be money ahead in the long run to buy a higher quality head now so as to avoid frustrating repairs in the future with a lesser quality head, because nobody likes working on one ever again if at all possible. Two manual heads stand out above all others in quality, the Wilcox Crittenden Skipper II, no longer being made but still well supported when replacement parts might be necessary. The other is the Groco Model K-H, still in production with parts readily available. Either of those heads are available used at my local consignment chandler costing typically around $45.00 to $60.00. I replaced my Groco K-H for the W/C head for reasons not relevant to this discussion and can speak from direct experience, having used both to my satisfaction so far. The Groco was in the boat for 15 years and I never had a single problem with it and expect I'll have the same experience with the W/C. Neither of the above mentioned heads are made of plastic, being primarily bronze throughout. I hope this helps, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[Andrew Means]

That's a really good idea with the washers!

 

[Blue Chip]

I will acknowledge that I am the least mechanical person in the world, but with two "kits" from Raritan, I can, and have, Taken the toilet home, compkteley dismantled it, and rebuilt it with all brand new washers, O Rings etc so that it works to perfection. Especially now that we ahve switched to fresh water flushing only NO MORE BAD smell as we replaced hoses with new "non-smell" variety. I can completely take the PHII apart and put it together in an hour and a half. If you knew my "mechanical skill level" you would be dropping you jaw about now. People a t Raritan (yes you talk to a person) are very helpful. There is one part the canged in 92, and i upgraded to that 3 years ago. I HAVE not had to rebuild it since. I'm a BIG fan obviously. The diagrams and blow ups can be understood by a dumby...I'm living proof.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Andrew,

There are better toilets out there but I also have that same Jabsco model on my E27 and have had no trouble with it.

 

[Andrew Means]

Did you install yours, Mark?

 

[toddbrsd]

Just Did It

Just replaced my, likely original, Raritan Head for the very same reason you are just 2 weeks ago. In fact I replaced it with the very same head you are looking at. For no other reason than I got it at Minney's for $65! No they don't stock them. Just at the right place at the right time!

The hole pattern IS differenent so hopefully the new head comes with a template. In retrospect, I should have turned it over and traced the pattern, but I did not, and I spent considerable time trying to "mark" the holes on the fiberglass with a pencil. BTW, the hose adapter at my raw water intake thru hull was a different diameter. It was a little bit bigger, so my standard 1/2" diameter sanitary hose didn't fit.

As mentioned earlier, I can confirm that you will use lag "screws" to screw into the plywood beneath the fiberglass.

Good Luck

 

[Andrew Means]

Awesome - maybe I'll do some photo documentation of the project as it goes along : )

 

[Bob Brigham]

Defender was having a sale on the PH II last week...the compact version came with pump too for about 180...

 

[Andrew Means]

I've just realized that my current toilet that's leaking all over the place is a Raritan PHII compact model.

Honestly a big part of the attraction of the Jabsco is (aside from its price) the very clearly labeled and illustrated 'flush' and 'dry' switch. It's not unusual for us to have 8 or 9 (or 14...) people on the boat at a time as we putter around Lake Union and the vast majority of them have no idea how to work the head and their eyes glaze over as I give instructions and always sheepishly walk out of it after using it. Clearly labeled instructions would be a welcome change...

 

[toddbrsd]

Honestly a big part of the attraction of the Jabsco is (aside from its price) the very clearly labeled and illustrated 'flush' and 'dry' switch.

Damn...we E-27 owners seem to think alike!

 

[Emerald]

If you plan on keeping her a long time, I must follow with Glyn and throw out another vote for finding a Wilcox Crittendon Skipper. It flushes with more vigor than even what you see on land. Keep small children and pets clear, or they too shall pass. :0

 

[Randy Rutledge]

I've just realized that my current toilet that's leaking all over the place is a Raritan PHII compact model.


Why not spend a couple of hours rebuilding the PHII, save money, know how something works on your boat and have a good working head? Rebuilt the PHII on Rumkin 8 years ago and it still works fine.

 

[Blue Chip]

Call Raritan. buy a coupl eof kits and for under $100.00 you'll be back in business.

 

[Mark F]

Hi Andrew,

I did install the Jabsco in the head on my boat. It was pretty straight forward - bought the toilet for about $100, some good sanitation ($) hose, a 15 gal. holding tank and a deck pumpout fitting. I also had to replace the through hull valves as the overboard GATE valve was frozen OPEN! There was no deck pumpout or holding tank so I added them. The hardest part was hooking up the hoses to the holding tank under the vee-berth. While I was at it I added a sink in the head and plumbed that to the raw water intake for the head. This is a very nice setup because you can flush with fresh water (from the sink) which helps with crud build up and stink. I guess you don't have those problems, you're on a lake right? Here is a photo,

 

[toddbrsd]

Neat

Mark,

That is a neat job and by "neat" I mean both cool and tidy. Need to add that second door to my cabinet. I assume you use that for toilet paper?

Looks like you have converted the raceway into storage. Now I see why you located the electrical outlet and the light where they are.