To sell or keep Racing my E35-II

[Rolf]

All:

I have been racing my 1979 Ericson 35-II (Sirius) on Lake Michigan for a few years now with mixed results (2nd place in double handed Queens Cup this year, 2nd Waukegan to Montrose, 1st Montrose to Waukegan, but lousy finishes in buoy races 4-5th place out of 5 boats). I am totally frustrated by the buoy racing situation, so much so that I am selling my beloved Ericson:

See: http://www.ablboats.com/details.php?id=86730

My PHRF of 162 just isn't enough to compete with the T-10, J-30 and others in the buoy racing. I can't point worth a damn, compared to them, and with the ghosty evening winds, simply can't get going until they are well under way.

Am I doing something wrong in terms of how she is set up (I perform 2 static tunings a season), how I am sailing her, or are these boats always going to beat regardless of how well I sail?

To sell or not to sell . . . that is the question . . . especially after all of the work I've done on her!

rolf

 

[treilley]

First of all, you have done a nice job with her. It looks like you have added a lot of wood to the interior. Have you told your handicapper about this? You may be able to get some credit for the extra weight and this extra weight will definitely affect your light wind performance.

From your work you seem to really enjoy this boat. Do you do any cruising or just racing? If just racing then I would sell her in favor of a newer racing boat. If you also cruise then you could always buy a smaller boat just for racing.

I have a 35-3 and she points great. I have even outpointed other Ericsons(35-3s and 38s). Rig tuning can affect this. Is your mast raked properly? This will affect your pointing ability. Also, how old are your sails? That will make a huge difference. How long have you been racing her? It took me a good 2 years to sort out my boat and learn how to make her go. This year I added a new main and have to relearn her. We did have some wins but no domination like we had last year.

One other note. I assume your asking price is based on the fact that you are not sure about selling her but an offer of that amount would help you make up your mind. Although boat prices have not fallen across the board, it is a buyers market so if you wish to sell I would wait at least a year.

There are 35-3's out there priced near your 35-2. I know there is more to it than that but most buyers don't get this. They want to buy the newest boat not necessarily the best boat.

Good luck and take care

 

[Rolf]

Tim . . thanks for the reply!

I do have some mast rake . . . but how much is appropriate I can't say. What I do know is that there is some weather helm, not too much, and if I throw in my first reef at ~18 knots . . and my second at 23-24 knots with a 155, and crank on the backstay as the wind picks up, it is acceptable. I do have new racing pentex sails (2 years old). I have started playing with my backstay quite a bit, keeping it very loose in the light stuff and adding progressively more tension (in addition to more halyard tension) to keep the max draft in the front 1/3 of the genny and main.

I don't do any cruising . . . I wanted too but the wifey just isn't into sailing, freaks her out too much . . . so I race exclusively with the boys.

rolf

 

[Loren Beach]

Decisions...

Agree with Tim, as usual. And, local ratings should reflect modifications (whether they make a boat faster or slower).
The sail inventory sounds pretty darned good and that traveler looks great. Nice upgrade on the spars, too!

Perhaps your midwest neighbor Seth might be available for some consulting time on your boat...


I wonder what sort of tutorial our solo ocean-racing member down in SF Bay might have concerning speed on a 35-2?

Another thing that catches my attention is the comment about buoy racing. It takes a different attitude to enjoy mixing it up (and risking collision damage) in a race with short legs and many mark roundings. I used to somewhat enjoy that sort of mayhem and aggression when I was racing a 1500# twenty foot one design.

I purposely avoid it with my 11K# 34 footer. With the large boat (like yours...) distance races put the emphasis back on sail trim and driving.

If I were to go back into short course racing again, I would probably do as a lot of other "mature" sailors around here have done and race in the resurgent Ranger 20 or Cal 20 fleets. Heck, I can buy an all-up boat like that for the price of one composite racing main sail for the Olson.

Good luck on finding a solution that fits.
Regards,
Loren

 

[Rolf]

Loren . . . like you said . .

I would very much be interested in hearing from Phil and Seth!

rolf

 

[e38 owner]

some thoughts

Having had a an Ericson 32 and raced against the Ericson 35. I have two thoughts. In general the 32 would not point has high has newer designs. I also remember that to try and pinch was slow. In PHRF I believe the key is how you match up in the fleet. The 35 in its day was an extremely successful racer. The Ericson 35 is a masthead rig as opposed to the other boats in the fleet. Thus when going off the wind with a chute up you should more than hold your own. In bouy races the start is key. I currently own a 38 and believe it is one of the best dual purpose boats ever designed. Over the years I have seen many a sailor get a faster boat and not see a big change in results. A faster boat may or may not match up well with the fleet.

 

[rwthomas1]

I beer can race my E38 and have the same problems, but worse. We only race cruising class, no spinnakers, but I am up against a C&C35 mkII, Tartan Ten, Several J-Boats, etc. My sails are good cruising sails but not the carbon/kevlar that everyone else has. I'm also not willing to empty every tank and unload everything that isn't bolted down every week just to race. I outweigh everything else in the field by many thousands of pounds. I race with most full tanks and even the Honda generator on board! The light air this year killed me. My one decent race was in 22kts when everyone else was getting knocked down. Since my wife and I cruise/daysail the boat I just decided not to bother racing it anymore. In fact, I'm gonna make her fatter with a bimini, rail seats, hard dodger top, etc.

I simply crew for another boat now, a full blown racer with no interior, nothing extra and its a blast. Racing was a great way to perfect sail trim on my boat but I am not willing to invest the time, money, etc. to make my boat competitive. It would make more sense to just have a second race boat.

The way I see it you have a few options. Sell it and buy a dedicated race boat. OR Strip out anything that isn't bolted down, and anything else you think you can live without. OR Keep working at it and maybe you will figure out the perfect setup.

RT

 

[Loren Beach]

Simpler... Racing...

Perhaps something like his... and no need for crew... is what a lot of us really need...

http://www.wyliecat.com/latest_news/news_072908.html
or

http://www.alerionexp.com/Alerion-AE28.html

I have done a short demo sail on an Alerion 28 and visited aboard a new Wyliecat 30. both at SailExpo. My only little problem is finding enough money.

It would be nice to have a single-handed racer and overnighter cruiser.

Loren

 

[HughHarv]

Personally, I've never cared much about winning or losing at sailing, for me racing was just an excuse to meet some sailing people and enjoy the comraderie. While out there, in the process, I've seen some people ruin a good time trying way too hard to make their boat a ten-thousandth of a knot faster than the next one, and for what? Better to just enjoy the moment I say.

 

[rbonilla]

wow Rolf...that is a beautiful E35..........it l@@k to me...to be
in GREAT shape.......very nice photos......

To sell or not to sell . . . that is the question . . . especially after all of the work I've done on her!

rolf

 

[Emerald]

. . . especially after all of the work I've done on her!

rolf

Given how nice she is, I'd look really hard at what you think you might replace her with and be sure you would be happy with other aspects of the boat unrelated to the racing. It would be a real bummer to be on the new boat shaking your head going, yeah, she's faster pointing, but the whatever is #@#! and wish I had my Ericson.....

 

[Emerald]

I have done a short demo sail on an Alerion 28 and visited aboard a new Wyliecat 30. both at SailExpo. My only little problem is finding enough money.

It would be nice to have a single-handed racer and overnighter cruiser.

Loren

Loren,

I think I can help. By total luck, when in pursuit of a better new/used mainsail and searching Bacon's (http://www.baconsails.com/) inventory by luff and foot, I found this sail that fit perfectly. Took it home for a test hoist for fit and it was great and I kept it. Close inspection revealed it was the original sail from an Alerion 28. So, you can buy the main from one of these and swap the Olson for an Independence 31 and...

 

[Seth]

Buoys are tough

I built the sail inventory for Providence in Chicago (the other good 35-2 in town).
I have seen you on the water, but not up close. How have you compared with Providence when racing against them (I think you have)?

With good sails and boat prep they are OK upwind on distance races (except in really big air-although we drastically improved this with a very cool 98% Aramid blade), but around the cans against our local boats in this rating band your biggest problem is acceleration out of tacks and off the line. You can't sail the 35-2 around the cans the same way you would a lighter boat (although T-10's and J-30's rate a lot faster than you do)...they can tack on smaller shifts and get up to speed quickly, whereas your boat takes a while to get the sails in and get going..

As much as I love this boat, and would still probably sail one for long distance races (where it is one of the best speed for rating boats out there), if your focus is buoy racing you should consider something more agile..

If I had to sail the 35-2 around the cans I would approach the race course very differently-try to limit tacks to 3-4 per beat, foot off for clear air instead of tacking when someone tacks on you, and stay out of traffic. This won't always be possible of course, but I think you can do a lot better with optimized sails and deck hardware/boat prep.

Still Greg Miarecki on Providence has come to the same conclusion: avoid the buoy stuff!

Probably not much help..they are great boats, but need some runway to get going!

Feel free to contact me off line for anything more specific. I am sailing "Louie's Last" in Milwaukee this weekend on Painkiller4, and then our season is over (as you know), but I am around town for a sail this fall if you like.

Hasta,

S

 

[Rolf]

Thanks for the info Seth . . . I'll be doing the "Last Race Race" out of Waukegan to Kenosha (Lemans start ) ) on Saturday and then race her back on Sunday.

I'd love to get you and Greg out on Sirius sometime, but since I'll be yanking her out of the water the next weekend, this will have to wait till next season. BTW, it would be great if I can take this discussion offline with you and Greg as I'd like to compare notes.

The comments from everyone on this post have been really helpful, especially justifying what I really want . . . 2 boats.

my work email is: rolf.wagner@abbott.com

rolf

 

[gareth harris]

This doesn't really answer your question Rolf, but a few thoughts.

Freyja must have been a racing model, being rigged with spinnaker, staysail, and hydraulic backstay. The headliner and cabin sole are fibreglass, and considerably lighter than your very nice looking mahogony; there is also no under cabin sole water tank, a tiller vice a wheel, and perhaps other variants to help with speed. Having the engine in the centre of the cabin must help a little too. Many of those variations are not factored in PHRF.

I think buoy racing is much more enjoyable in a one design, I also like to use club boats where I am less concerned about damage (to my knowledge no managers of navy marinas read this site). In boats in the 15-23 ft. range, the costs involved are much lower, and I think you get more enjoyment, not less, with the extra agility - just my opinion, but I never understood the owner of the Shock 35 I met in San Diego who hauled his boat to keep the hull dry every time he went sailing.

If I were you I would keep Sirius for the longer races and general sailing, as she really is a beauty. And if you want to buy a specific race boat, every thing you will need will be much cheaper the smaller the boat is.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[Rolf]

Hmmm . . . to sell or not to sell . . . NOT.

All:

Thanks for helping me decide on whether or not to keep my Ericson 35-II. I will not sell her . . . unless someone makes it worth my while. She is such a great boat is so many ways . . . however . . .the cool thing is, I also purchased another boat for a very attractive price, an Evelyn 32-2, which will feed my racing appetite. From a financial perspective, I can keep both. The Evelyn will need a little attention. Since I live on 5 acres, I will work on her, till she's perfect, inside my barn for the next year, and race Sirius in the meantime, knowing that I've got a rocket for next year . . . and a nice comfortable ride when and if I decide the ULDB experience is no longer for me (if that ever happens ).

rolf
Sirius
1979 E35-II

 

[Seth]

Great choice!

The Evelyn 32-2 is a very cool little boat.

Take a hard look at A-sails, and maybe a 10% penalty pole.

Keep us posted as you go through the project!

Happy holidays!

S

 

[rwthomas1]

Ooooooh! Your gonna like the Evelyn! The race boat that I mentioned in my previous post is an Evelyn 26, its a blast. The owner recommended a Evelyn 32 to me when I was thinking second race boat. RT