We're in the early stages of restoring new life into our recently acquired 1971 E-27 with transom cutout. First order of business was replacing the relic outboard with a new Tohatsu 9.9 with ultralong shaft and 4-blade prop. We still need to haul out and clean/inspect the hull, and I know there is a good amount of marine growth as evidenced by barnacles on the rudder. But the top speed we're able to get is ~4.3-4.5 knots (+/- 1 knot depending on currents). Anyone else with a similarly sized outboard on the E-27 that can offer their own comparison for cruising speed while under motor?
Barnacles really, really slow you down. Can't really measure speed without a hull that's clean.
That's what I'm really hoping is the case. Knocked some of the barnacles off the rudder while at the dock, but will do a proper cleaning + inspection + painting during haul out in April. I know the boat hasn't left the water for at least a decade, and likely twice that or more...
Oh, and welcome aboard. Add your boat, engine and region to the signature line: Username/Signature. Helps people respond.
Cheers
CW
Cheers
CW
With that weight of boat and DWL, I would expect about 5.8 to 6. knots with a *clean* bottom, in smooth water.
(that is a SWAG)
And, what Christian said. It's amazing how a thin layer of gooey fresh water slime can slow our boat down a half knot!
(that is a SWAG)
And, what Christian said. It's amazing how a thin layer of gooey fresh water slime can slow our boat down a half knot!
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Jerry VB
E32-3 / M-25XP
That matches our experience with our previous boat, a '77 E27, with a Honda 9.9.
Guzzisailor
Member II
I have a E27 that had the inboard removed years ago and I replaced it with a Nissan 9.8 extra long shaft w/four blade prop (with no transom cutout). I have had the boat up to 6-7 knots routinely.
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Guzzisailor
Member II
I should have noted I have the bottom cleaned every 60 days by a diver.
In all of my research, 10hp outboard seems to be the optimum for this (my) boat. Hull speed I thought was rated at 6 knots, getting any faster than this usually means you're surfing a wave or on the fast track to the bottom. With displacement hulls, once you acheive hull speed, more horsepower generally just means more fuel burn but same speed. All of this is just 'I read about this' since I've not tried to change out my 9.9 Nissan. When I am just motoring, 3/4 throttle gives me 4 to 5 knots with a favorable sea state, less if bucking into waves and wind. That extra 1/4 throttle usually makes little difference other than fuel usage and for me, that last knot isn't worth it. I do however, use all of the throttle for short burst maneuvering in close quarters. Here in the Bay of Green Bay, bottom stays fairly clean tho I did pick up a few zebra mussels last season.
Bellington sailors will know the local answer, but here it takes only 7 days for small barnacles to appear and grow on an untreated fiberglass hull.
At that early point they already resist a sponge and require actual scraping. Full scale barnacles are the devil to get off and leave behind deposits that need sanding.
I learned this from a skiff without bottom paint, and paid the price if I pushed leaving it in the water too long.
Our harbor water may be warmer than yours--about 65F now and 72F in summer. Most here have dive service on cruising boats.
At that early point they already resist a sponge and require actual scraping. Full scale barnacles are the devil to get off and leave behind deposits that need sanding.
I learned this from a skiff without bottom paint, and paid the price if I pushed leaving it in the water too long.
Our harbor water may be warmer than yours--about 65F now and 72F in summer. Most here have dive service on cruising boats.
I had exactly your setup. But a 73' E27 with the cutout and the same Tohatsu! I bought the motor because of the electric start and the extra deep 25" length. I could motor in the high 5s at half throttle. The motor was overkill in terms of power but was quiet and a lot smother running with it's 2 cylinders. I used the setup for I think 12 years and loved it except... I could no longer steer very much with the motor because of the throttle arm bracket. I adjusted it in the well to one side so I could get about 3-5 degrees of turn. Reversing with the motor is a challenge as the prop wash would go right into the rudder (hold on!). Best thing- no outboard bracket! The motor weighs close to 90 lbs and bracket is not practical. The extra long shaft was great as it rarely came out of the water in rough weather. The motor was bulletproof. I think I changed the the impeller twice in the 12 years I owned it. I did suffer from water in the carburetor once but added a filter/water separator. I had a custom aluminum gas tank made that stayed in the laserette. Sounds like the bottom is really slowing you down.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, much appreciated. I was happy to have even found one of these motors in stock as it checked all my boxes, so the slow speed was pretty disappointing. But very heartened to hear we can expect better speed (and likely at a lower throttle).
You have a great setup! I loved my E27 and still think about her.
I hope so eventually, but I’ve got chainplate inspection on the mind amongst a long list of tasks… Unfortunately this boat was neglected somewhat for the past many years. But at least one task is mostly taken care of!
This is only my opinion... So please don't take any offense.
The E27 has embedded chain plates I am sure you already know. It is difficult to inspect and probably in reasonable shape if sealed well for most of it's life. And... the boat is almost 50 years old. I have seen and read about people bolting on external chain plates. My opinion, it looks horrible and it be costly costly even if you do your own work. There was one account I read where the owner actually regretted doing it. I sold my boat two years ago and the chain plates were just fine. How do I know? I sail in the SF Bay and Delta in 20 know winds and the mast has not fallen down. There is an '73 E27 two doors down from me in Richmond. Chain plates are fine! I have heard no stories of an E27 losing a mast for this reason. And there are a lot of E27s still out there.
I think some people overly concern themselves with this issue. Unless there is real evidence that there is damage, I would not be too concerned and would take lightly the opinion of anyone who might profit. Remember this is a 50 year old boat worth about 5K in good condition. I recently learned of a person spending 7K on new keel bolts on a boat worth 2K. And he is a nice fella new to sailing. Best way that I know how to characterize this situation is that "You don't know what you don't know." So we have to do with what we can live with. Keep everything in perspective and remember that love is blind.
Thanks for sharing your opinion, really appreciated. I have read enough to realize that this is somewhat all or nothing: visual inspection, in so much as it's possible, is only minimally helpful. So one just has to make a judgement call whether to make the sizeable investment to undertake replacing the shroud chainplates. Don Casey's book is pretty adamant about replacing such embedded chain plates—just a single sentence recommendation which implies a heck of a lot of effort. We already have the standing rigging down for replacement, but the thought of fabricating and installing new chainplates is a bit overwhelming.
Sound advice about keeping in mind the age and value of this boat. It's easy to get carried away seeing the many posts from impressively capable people restoring their 70s fiberglass boats. My current thinking is to at least undertake some minimal due diligence: visual inspection without excavating to see if there is egregious evidence of moisture or corrosion. Assuming nothing obvious, then I'm leaning toward the leap of faith that the stainless steel is okay for our purposes (relatively novice sailors on generally calm inland coastal waters). It would be easier to make that leap if the boat had been better cared for; most all of the deck paint is cracked and flaking. We did have a shipwright acquaintance look over the boat and he concluded that the deck core seemed to be in okay condition with no obvious rot.
If we do go ahead with keeping the original chainplates, I will probably at least rebed the deckside plates and excavate/epoxy seal the deck core around the chainplates—inspecting there for any corrosion as well.
I suggest just sail this boat. If there's going to be a next one, save the money for that.
It might be worth $30K investment if you plan to sail this 1971 E27 around the world. Or even if you plan to keep it ten years, or forever. But if you plan to just sail locally and improve skills and move up in size or condition eventually, minimal dollars makes more sense.
Figure the most you could possibly sell the boat for and be guided by that. It's probably what you paid for it, no matter what upgrades you accomplish.
It might be worth $30K investment if you plan to sail this 1971 E27 around the world. Or even if you plan to keep it ten years, or forever. But if you plan to just sail locally and improve skills and move up in size or condition eventually, minimal dollars makes more sense.
Figure the most you could possibly sell the boat for and be guided by that. It's probably what you paid for it, no matter what upgrades you accomplish.