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Transmissions...ARRGGGHHHHH!!!!!

hdlEric

Member III
I have read many of the posts re the M25XP engines with Hurth transmission problems. I still need some advice though. I replaced the old Hurth trans with a ZF10 3 yrs ago; I needed to move the engine forward a little, but things went fine and it has been working well.....albeit with a rather sloppy neutral position.
About 6 weeks ago I got a dock line wrapped around my prop......daaaaaaa, I know. Anyway, the trans wouldn't go into forward afterwards. I removed the shifter bracket (the piece that the cable attaches to) from the shaft that operates the gears; thinking it may have slipped on the shaft; the bloody shaft does not have a flat on it. Still no luck; it would go into reverse fine, but no forward. So I decided to give it up for a while and use the boat as a lounge until haul out.
Recently, I started the engine in preparation for Winter haul out, and I decided to check the transmission.......LOW AND BEHOLD I COULD SHIFT IT INTO FORWARD!!! So I went through the same procedure as before; making sure the trans was in neutral and reinstalling the shifting bracket.
Now, I do have forward, but only after I shift it in and out of gear, and rev the engine a little a couple times.....then it seems to work ok, in fact I went out the other day.
My questions are:
Is it possible I just still have not got the neutral gate, forward and backward gear positions adjusted
correctly?
Or did I mess up the trans, and it is temporarily working.....just teasing me LOL?
If the latter seems true, should I just look for a TechnoDrive trans, and if so, which one?
Any help would be Sooooo appreciated. There aren't many people around Toledo, OH that work on sailboats or transmissions and engines, and this site has always been a GREAT resource.
THANKS!!
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The nautical Rumor Mill seems to say that ZF acquired Hurth, but since the ZF-10 is a 'stronger' model than the old model 50, it should work fine for that engine.
I remain clueless. :rolleyes:

I can say, that with light use, the new TMC-40 that came with my new 2018 Betamarine 25 is continuing to work fine.
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Transmissions are expensive, so I would try everything possible first before replacing it. I would start by checking for the exact measurement that the gear shift lever on the transmission should move forward and in reverse and adjust as needed to get it right. If you have any stiffness on the transmission gear shift cable, I would replace it. I would then replace the transmission fluid /oil and ensure you don't overfill or underfill.
Once you've done that, test it carefully. If it doesn't work reliably, either get a professional opinion or replace it.
I'm guessing if you do the above, you may find it works ok, but that's just my opinion, and I'm not a professional. Let us know!
Frank
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
When troubleshooting I move the shift lever on the trans by hand, maybe with a wrench for leverage.

That eliminates the cables and controls from the equation.

Probably you're doing that, too. The controls can always be adjusted. If it's the trans, then, as you say, argggggg.
 

Bolo

Contributing Partner
Now, I do have forward, but only after I shift it in and out of gear, and rev the engine a little a couple times.....then it seems to work ok, in fact I went out the other day.

By all means look into other possible causes for your transmission problem that are relatively easy to fix before going to replacing the transmission, but.....your quote (above) about the transmission sort of working brings back memories of what my old Hurth HWB 50 did (I realize that you now have a ZF10 3) before and a few months after the rebuild prior to it completely going forcing me to installing a new TMC 40. The old Hurth transmission presented the same symptoms. Also, if you go the new TMC 40 route you might want to look up my postings on re-positioning the heat exchanger to allow proper clearance for the transmission dip stick and re-fill because I have the same M25XP in my E32-3. BTW, the TMC 40 has been working flawlessly.
 

supersailor

Contributing Partner
This sounds like a linkage problem rather than a transmission problem. Netural should not be sloppy. A misadjusted linkage can burn out a tranny if it doesn't allow the transmission to fully shift into forward.
 

hdlEric

Member III
Transmissions...Arrgghh

Thanks Frank, Christian and Loren for you input. Sorry it took so long to get repost. I do tend to feel it is an adjustment problem, but in my humble opinion, the problem is getting the linkage back on after one has removed the linkage and placed the trans in the neutral position :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::0:0:0:0!!

Tightening up the bolt/nut on the linkage requires two hands.....of course, while nearly standing on one's head......and of course you have to make sure you do NOT MOVE the linkage on the BLOODY ROUND shaft!!! Hasn't any of those geniouses heard it's a good idea to put a flat on a rounded shaft......or perhaps a spline??? Especially, since there is a rotational force being applied...true, not much, but there is only 15 degrees of tolerance in each direction.

Anybody have any ideas about fixing that little dilemma?? I have though of trying to grind a flat, and modify the bracket, but not sure if I have the skill to do that.
Thanks again!!
Transmissions are expensive, so I would try everything possible first before replacing it. I would start by checking for the exact measurement that the gear shift lever on the transmission should move forward and in reverse and adjust as needed to get it right. If you have any stiffness on the transmission gear shift cable, I would replace it. I would then replace the transmission fluid /oil and ensure you don't overfill or underfill.
Once you've done that, test it carefully. If it doesn't work reliably, either get a professional opinion or replace it.
I'm guessing if you do the above, you may find it works ok, but that's just my opinion, and I'm not a professional. Let us know!
Frank
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
The only adjustment I make is to make sure the cable provides the full throw for the transmission shift lever. Once set the job ought to be finished.

If the cables aren't working correctly, the cause is often the connection of the cable sleeve to the bracket that secures it at either end (Set screws fall out or the rusty bracket fails). You can see the trans-end bracket in the photo. Checking the sleeve bracket at the pedestal end requires partial disassembly of the pedestal. ( Photo #7 here: https://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoe...-Specialties-Pedestal-Disassembly-with-Photos
 
Last edited:

hdlEric

Member III
etc

Christian,
I did service the entire pedestal; including shifting and throttle cable; about 3 yrs ago, but will check everything at that end. There are no kinks; I made very sure of that. In order to get enough travel of the shaft, I did have to move the bracket that held the external part of the shifting cable (the sleeve??) further forward; after my recent misfortune with a dock line. This seemed to help the transmission going into forward (the problem). It seems to me that it is only a few mm, or degrees of arc that I need to somehow achieve full and quick engagement. It's just difficult to attain, when you are trying to do four things at once.


Thanks so much for your help
The only adjustment I make is to make sure the cable provides the full throw for the transmission shift lever. Once set the job ought to be finished.

If the cables aren't working correctly, the cause is often the connection of the cable sleeve to the bracket that secures it at either end (Set screws fall out or the rusty bracket fails). You can see the trans-end bracket in the photo. Checking the sleeve bracket at the pedestal end requires partial disassembly of the pedestal. ( Photo #7 here: https://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoe...-Specialties-Pedestal-Disassembly-with-Photos
 
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