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Traveler tackle upgrade

Grizz

Grizz
Another 'Yes' Vote for the Harken Windward Sheeting System

Swapped out the existing system last winter, after finding it ergonomically challenging. Verified the hole spacing for the Harken track and all were accessible with a bit of effort except 1, which of course required @ 2-hours to access!

It's not the best pic, but tells a bit of the tale. Obviously this was taken before the Mainsheet was installed, but this thread is all about 'traveler'. Our Main trimmer can sit high, with sheet in hand and ease or trim as needed. Simple. Pricey, but you get what you've paid for.

Details and Risers (3).jpg
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Swapped out the existing system last winter, after finding it ergonomically challenging. Verified the hole spacing for the Harken track and all were accessible with a bit of effort except 1, which of course required @ 2-hours to access!

It's not the best pic, but tells a bit of the tale. Obviously this was taken before the Mainsheet was installed, but this thread is all about 'traveler'. Our Main trimmer can sit high, with sheet in hand and ease or trim as needed. Simple. Pricey, but you get what you've paid for.

View attachment 9836

Interesting!
Did you reuse the stock Harken track? (Reads like maybe you did, but I just wanted to be sure.)
For single handing, the one feature that I am not too sure of is whether either traveler control is any easier to reach from behind the wheel. With the stock setup I center the traveler and then bring the main sheet tail back and drape it over the binnacle guard. The ball bearing main sheet cleat works easily enough that I can snap the sheet in n out while driving.
I would note that when sailing with crew, the main trimmer often sits on the combing and pulls the stock traveler line straight up -- works well enough, but someone has gotta sit right there on the uphill side.

There is also a rumor dating from the introduction of the Harken Windward Sheeting system -- that early models would release both sides (!) when the boom was parked while at anchor and boat rolled each way in wakes, etc.

Thanks again to all for pictures and narratives. Much appreciated!

Loren
 

Greg Ross

Not the newest member
That rumour is accurate

Yes Loren,
Any time there is no lateral load on the main sheet car both sides do unlatch. On our boat, because the traveller is on the bridge deck and crossing the companionway, I park the boom to starboard/ away from the dock. It get lashed in that position.
As in life, all manner of compromises!
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Harken Windward Sheeting System additional thoughts.

Loren and all, We too have that same system on the Dawn Treader with two additional enhancements. First is the double stacked end cars I chose to use which allowed me to run the bitter end of the separate control lines directly aft and over the cockpit cushions, to within reach from behind the helm. I did this to to make life easier for Marilyn when single handing (she sailed over to Catalina Island alone yesterday for a week stay). Now with these, all lines are led aft which allows her to remain safely at the helm other than to go below to use the head or grab something to eat or drink. The second thing is something Greg touched on that with the traveler on the bridge deck, the main sheets can be a pain to get around when entering or exiting the boat or cabin. I simply added a husky stainless steel snap shackle to the main sheeting lower fiddle block which attaches it to the Harken traveler car. When in the slip or on a mooring, we swing the boom well out of the way to starboard and secure the snap shackle to a D-car on the Genoa track. Cheers, GLyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
 

Grizz

Grizz
Different Track

Loren, unfortunatly, a Low Profile CB track is needed, as the OEM track isn't compatible. This is part of the reason I have the entire OEM system listed in the "For Sale / Wanted" section of this site.

From memory, I believe the o/c spacing of the OEM track = 4", which is available for the CB track. 'Measure twice and drill once' is in play. Its not a hard installation, just tedious. 'Bout the same as any boat project, just double your original time estimate and then add at least 50% and you might be close!
 

Walter Pearson

Member III
I upgraded with a Harken traveler. I do like the purchase it gives, but I do remember filling and drilling for holes that did not line up. I added bags to handle the extra line.Bags 001.jpg
 

Michael Edwards

Member II
Like Grizz, I went with the Harken windward sheeting caron my E-32. Just filled the existing holes and drilled new one as neeeded. I moved the whole thing foward a bit and bought track to span the full width of the cockpit. This means that part of the track is un-supported.
I intend to build a bridge.
After a week-long cruise, I'll say it is awsome! It has so little friction that posistioning the main is easy! No more having to bear off & using a double fisted grip to pull it up.
I am glad to be rid of the original, but more glad this is a great system, Because it costs alot, but worth it. New main sail is next.
ME
 

Greg Ross

Not the newest member
Loren, what's the square footage of your Main?

I never had the advantage of sailing the boat with the old traveller so can't speak to the relative improvement. When I bought the Harken bits and pieces I did order the double end block sets but once I'd assembled it all I thought the single sheave line routing would look Ok. The spare sheaves went on the mast for Lazy Jacks!
The main sail on the I 31 is theoretically 210 sq ft. With 3 : 1 ratio I find close hauling sail/ pulling the car up hill/ past centre is done without a whole lot of effort. I think the air blocks and the ball bearing car likely reduce quite a substantial amount of the friction/ drag.
With 4 : 1 advantage it would be a piece of cake!
For whatever reason, when doing the installation the hole centers on the new track matched up with the existing drillings. That was a pleasant surprise.
 

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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
our Main....

Oh my. This is worse than trying to recall what a "cubit" is. :rolleyes:

The P = 37'3" and the E = 13'6", per the brochure.

I must have written ours down somewhere, but cannot find it off hand.

What with all of his preparation for entering the Mac race this summer perhaps Grizz has that square footage figure handy. I hope.
:)

Loren
 
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Grizz

Grizz
'Cubit'?

It's a mathematical function, where something is multiplied 4 times. Or is it multiplied by 4? I guess I shoulda payed more attention waaaaay back when...
 

Glyn Judson

Moderator
Moderator
Replacing traveler track and cars.

Greg and all, I too experienced the same when installing the dedicated Harken track on the bridge deck of our E31, in that all the holes lined up perfectly. Aren't all SAE tracks on 4" centers as an industry standard anyhow? I can't imagine why anyone would have problems with misalignment?? Puzzled in Santa Monica, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del REy, CA
 

Grizz

Grizz
Possibly an SAE vs Metric Misalignment

This text from the Harken / West Marine literature, which makes you think that somewhere, someone somehow ordered metric when they needed Imperial (SAE). Haven't a clue what the metric conversion to 100 mm is. Carpentry advise works when working 'round boats: measure twice, drill once! Nice to know we've achieved 'retrofit' status...

Holes in metric drilled track are on 100mm centers. Use 1/4"” (6mm) FHMS fasteners. End stops sold separately. Retrofit 4" hole spacing track is available by Special Order.
 

Matey

Member III
Thoughts about travel

All it took was the test sail and delivery of my boat to decide the stock traveler was in no way gonna cut it. My bridge deck had a fair amount of rot I had to deal with but personally I would not reuse any holes on boats this old without cleaning up, pouring, re-drilling and sealing anyway. I had little prior experience with epoxy but it's pretty darn simple.
I went with a Garhauer. It's a huge improvement, I've been mostly happy. Mine sheets as described in post #3 but I find the same difficulty. The single line set-up on the lazy side jambs sometimes also. I'm going to angle the cleats up a little and see if that helps the sheeting while driving issue. Guido cut the track to my measurements leaving space to step outboard of the track. I based this on the mainsheet angle to the boom also. He also calculated the loads from my rig dimensions and sail area to determine the hole size, spacing and if we could move it forward and bridge the cockpit area, which I did. He was very helpful, but slow in delivery as I'd heard about Garhauer. I made some backing plates out of aluminum for underneath too. Like 2 or 3 inches wide. If this track pulls up, the bridge deck is coming with :0

I'd go with a Harken if I were doing it today and didn't struggle with dollars. Their traveler (and all their stuff) is superior IMHO.

Regards, Greg


2 091.jpg
 

gregbirmingham

Junior Member
Raising the boom and traveler on s plit cockpit 29

I recently purchased a '76 Ericson29 with a split cockpit and wheel steering. The boat is currently stripped inside and out and being completely re-fitted. Too many issues to piece work it together. Since I'm doing so much work already, I am thinking of fabricating a hard dodger over the compainionway and an "Airfoil" type riser over the helm to attach the traveler , eliminating having lines in the cockpit. Am I crazy? I researched the idea of cabin mounting the traveler yet feel weary of changing the load on the boom to the center. A hard riser over the helm also gives me the opportunity to add a sail cloth bimini
over the helm and between the hard dodger and riser.
The riser would be 6'1 off the cockpit floor for ease of travel and constructed using an aluminum frame bedded in fiberglass with a gel coat finish. As of now, the mast is being re-worked with internal Halyards and I still have to purchase new sails so raising the boom is not an issue for clearence.

I would appreciate any and all thoughts.
 

toddbrsd

Ex-Viking, Now Native American
No your not Crazy!

Its not a new concept. Take a look a the picture below. No personal experiance with this setup, but I am planning on a similar modification to a catamaran that I am rehabbing. Good Luck.

33SideCaptainCloseGAL.jpg
 

Matey

Member III
I recently purchased a '76 Ericson29 with a split cockpit and wheel steering. The boat is currently stripped inside and out and being completely re-fitted. Too many issues to piece work it together. Since I'm doing so much work already, I am thinking of fabricating a hard dodger over the compainionway and an "Airfoil" type riser over the helm to attach the traveler , eliminating having lines in the cockpit. Am I crazy? I researched the idea of cabin mounting the traveler yet feel weary of changing the load on the boom to the center. A hard riser over the helm also gives me the opportunity to add a sail cloth bimini
over the helm and between the hard dodger and riser.
The riser would be 6'1 off the cockpit floor for ease of travel and constructed using an aluminum frame bedded in fiberglass with a gel coat finish. As of now, the mast is being re-worked with internal Halyards and I still have to purchase new sails so raising the boom is not an issue for clearence.

I would appreciate any and all thoughts.

Greg,

Without dancing around .. I hate the option. Weight where it's bad, crappy sheeting angles and IMHO looks like well, a Hunter. Don't care for them or their design & function. A powerboat that sails. I'd look at more mid-boom options
Nothing personal, just my thoughts. Good luck on your refit. They're great little boats to bring back

Regards, Greg
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I would appreciate any and all thoughts.

Don't do this to an Ericson. For all the reasons Greg mentioned. I don't understand why this would even be considered. Of all the things
you could spend your money on, you want to do this to avoid lines in the cockpit? It is a sailboat after all.

Martin
 
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gregbirmingham

Junior Member
I would appreciate any and all thoughts.

Thanks for the feedback....I spent the day drawing up different ideas and couldn't come up with anything that complimented the lines of the boat. As for the mid-boom traveler, any concerns with the boom bending while blue water crusing in high wind? I'm sailing with kids and really need to eliminate the seat track for safety.

Once again...appreciate the candid thoughts...
 

PDX

Member III
Some years back there was a thread about an E28 whose boom kinked as a result of a mid boom sheeting arrangement. It was sailing in SF bay, a consistently high wind location for an inland waterway. The poster replaced his boom with a used mast he located. You could also order an upsized replacement boom brand new if you want to spend the money. In the long run this might be a lot easier than trying to get creative with a sheeting arrangement.
 

Andrew Means

Member III
I recently purchased a '76 Ericson29 with a split cockpit and wheel steering. The boat is currently stripped inside and out and being completely re-fitted. Too many issues to piece work it together. Since I'm doing so much work already, I am thinking of fabricating a hard dodger over the compainionway and an "Airfoil" type riser over the helm to attach the traveler , eliminating having lines in the cockpit. Am I crazy? I researched the idea of cabin mounting the traveler yet feel weary of changing the load on the boom to the center. A hard riser over the helm also gives me the opportunity to add a sail cloth bimini
over the helm and between the hard dodger and riser.
The riser would be 6'1 off the cockpit floor for ease of travel and constructed using an aluminum frame bedded in fiberglass with a gel coat finish. As of now, the mast is being re-worked with internal Halyards and I still have to purchase new sails so raising the boom is not an issue for clearence.

I would appreciate any and all thoughts.

If the only thing stopping you from mounting the traveler on the cabin top is worrying about the boom, then I wouldn't worry. If you distribute the weight across a number of points I'm sure the boom will be plenty strong. I would think the sideways stresses on a hard riser over the helm (basically a box construction with no cross-bracing) would be much greater and would give me more pause.

I don't know what kind of sailing you do most, but a 29 ft boat feels awfully small for something like that - on something like 40 footer I feel like it could make sense but on a 29 I would worry about screwing up the lines and making the cockpit feel really cramped. I think my 27' cockpit would feel crazy cramped if I did something like that, but I suppose the majority of the sailing we do is with a cockpit full of hipsters.
 
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