Upgrade cabin-top winches and clutches on 32-3

[peaman]

I’d like to upgrade the winches and clutches at the companion way, but want to be very careful to get it right. Presently, I have a Barient 10, port and starboard for reef lines and halyards, all run through clutches, as well as a Barient 18 2-speed on starboard side for the main sheet. (Photos below.) I’m told that my winch placement is “non-standard” for the 32-3, for what that’s worth. Even an 8” winch handle on the starboard halyard winch will rub on the dodger before running into the adjacent main sheet winch. The triple clutch sets port and starboard are different models, and both interfere with the dodger when opened. And none of the winches are self-tailing





I have about decided to replace the two Barient 10’s with a new pair of Lewmar chrome Ocean 14ST. I haven’t decided yet what to do with the main sheet winch.

I am considering swapping the positions of the main sheet winch with the stbd halyard winch so the halyard winches both flank the companionway, with the mainsheet winch placed outboard.

With three self-tailing winches, I will remove all of the horn cleats in that area, allowing more room for best placement of winches.

For clutches, I had considered using Lewmar DC2 triples, but am concerned about the potential for line slippage due to the less positive stopping mechanism compared to Spinlock and others. As for Spinlock, I like the small form factor of their XAS clutches, but wonder if their load capacity of 1270 lb is adequate, versus the much larger XTR clutches with around twice the load rating.

I will welcome any comments on the above, particularly as to winch size, placement of winches on stbd side as described, and selection of clutch sets.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I have the Lewar DC 2 clutches and they work just fine with a couple different sizes of llne--the loads will be much less than any of them are rated for. I have two ST Lewmar halyard winches that interfere with the dodger, but I don't see that as much of a problem as I only have to crank a revolution to set each each time I go out and if I make an adjustment under way it is usually just a fraction of an inch. I like having the mainsheet winch near the center because this is a sheet that I am adjusting often underway. How you lead lines aft is a matter personal preference. I don't think ST winches are a necessity where you have clutches that work and I would actually prefer cam cleats on the main sheet if I was racing. I single hand and the ST feature makes me have to lean in under the dodger to secure it. As I think of it, a cam cleat would be faster. But I have other things that bother me more on my 32-200. I would like to slap whoever thought that slope angle on the cabin top below the handrail was a good idea. Maybe this is unique to the 32-200 cabin top and not the others. I think it is a major hazard--it seems like it is there to pitch you over the rail if you do not carefully watch your step.

 

[Dave G.]

What size are your lines ? The DC2 10-12mm( 3/8 & 1/2) is rated at 1500lbs holding power and 2600lbs working load. The problem with Lewmar is they are very line size specific so be sure of sizing before hand. I also think the DC2 open towards the stern( I think, been a while) so you could get a little more space between your clutch and winch. All that said I bought Garhauer clutches which I'm going to install as soon as the weather breaks.

 

[Bolo]

For what it’s worth, I just completed adding rope clutches and repositioning winches on my E32-3. Portside has two pair of Spinlock XAS rope clutches for the two main reefs serviced by one Lewmar 24. Starboard side has three Spinlock XAS rope clutches for the boom vang, main sheet and main halyard serviced by one (perviously very lightly used and reconditioned) Barient 21, two speed and self-tailing winch placed far enough to towards the center of the boat so that a winch handle will clears the dodger frame. So now all control lines are in the cockpit. Head sail halyard winch is at the mast but that’s only used twice a season. Old holes from other winches and cleats are filled but are yet to be gel coated over, a task I can finally get to now that all modifications have been made.

 

[Kenneth K]

Here's my rigging go-round back from 2020: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/running-rigging-redux.825/ The dodger will drive a lot of the decisions about the placement of things.

I spent a lot of effort building epoxy winch bases to replace my old, decayed teak bases. This wasn't really necessary--the winches apparently work fine mounted directly to the sloped cabin top as others have done--what really matters is the lead-in angles of the lines to the winches.

On the starboard side, I also built a raised base for the rope clutch, but by the time I got to the port side I got lazy and just bolted it to the cabin top. Note (second photo) that the lines do slightly rub on the cabin top of the un-raised port clutch:



Also, when you remount the winches, note that there's a "proper" orientation with respect to the gear that drives the winch drum. Ericson did it wrong on about half my winches.

Since the deck is sloped and most of us drill our holes vertically, the nuts on the mounting bolts won't sit flat against the backing plates (most of the bolts you remove will be bent, and harder to remove, because of this). Get some stainless beveled washers from McMaster Carr to fix this.



This was a fun project. Good luck. Measure six times, drill once.

 

[G Kiba]

For clutches, I had considered using Lewmar DC2 triples, but am concerned about the potential for line slippage due to the less positive stopping mechanism compared to Spinlock and others. As for Spinlock, I like the small form factor of their XAS clutches, but wonder if their load capacity of 1270 lb is adequate, versus the much larger XTR clutches with around twice the load rating.

I will welcome any comments on the above, particularly as to winch size, placement of winches on stbd side as described, and selection of clutch sets.

I prefer the Lewmar design over the Spinlock. They are a simpler design with fewer moving parts. My current boat came with spinlock clutches and last summer a clutch managed to rip the cover right off my jib halyard on a windy sail. A reason to keep the horn cleat? So I am told not to rely on the clutch to secure a halyard by some. I have not had a problem with the Lewmars in that role.

 

[Loren Beach]

Since the deck is sloped and most of us drill our holes vertically, the nuts on the mounting bolts won't sit flat against the backing plates (most of the bolts you remove will be bent, and harder to remove, because of this). Get some stainless beveled washers from McMaster Carr to fix this.

Good solution to the 'slope' situation, and here is the link to my solution:

O34 - Risers All In Place!

The Admiral and I got the other three winches installed today. Now that the jib sheets are led, the lead to the primary is uphill from the block on the deck track., like it should be. With 20-20 hindsight, I might have made the risers for the...

ericsonyachts.org

The next blog entry shows the winch upgrade in use.

Similar to Grant, I also like the Lewmar clutch design.

 

[Christian Williams]

Lewmars work for me.

 

[peaman]

Since the most limiting factor in optimizing the line handling on the 32-3 is real estate, it is interesting to see that both Bolo and KennethK have only one winch on each side, with the starboard winch serving main sheet as well as halyards, etc. Bolo runs the main sheet through a clutch, while KennethK has a clam cleat forward of the winch and in line with the main sheet, so that sheet can be "parked" temporarily to free the winch to handle a halyard, for example. I am convinced that I should remove the smaller winch from my starboard side, and arrange to use a single winch on that side. The question then is which winch?

The present annual BOGO sale on Lewmar winches has got me focused on this topic, but truthfully, I use the port side winch very little compared to the starboard, so maybe I need only one new (self-tailing) winch, and not two. I can move my standard Barient 18 from starboard to port, and install a new Andersen 18 ST or 28 ST on starboard for a good deal less, or a little bit more respectively than the cost of a pair of Lewmar Ocean 16ST. The Andersen 28 is two-speed, with power ratio slightly more than my present Barient 18, while the single-speed Lewmar 16ST is a good deal less. Andersen seems to be very well regarded in all metrics.

Winch	Power ratio 1	Power ratio 2
Barient 18	6.7	24
Andersen 18ST	18.8
Andersen 28ST	9.5	26.5
Lewmar Ocean 16ST	15.8

 

[Loren Beach]

This is really a rare opportunity to upgrade those winches for another 30 years + .
Remember that housetop winches are for more than tensioning running rigging, and also for occasional use to haul a 200+ pound person easily up the mast. (and that may not happen at the place or time of your choosing.)

Your boar displaces about 9800#, and for comparison our O-34 displaces about 10600. Your basic sail area is about 497 sq. ft, and ours is approx. 546. Not a whole lot of difference. You have a powerful sail plan.

it's a good safety feature to have port and starboard winches of enough power that anyone crewing can hoist sails or people. Also, you may be hoisting someone up from the water with a Life Sling.
And.... it's more difficult to really get a good upper body position to use a housetop winch at best efficiency; unlike a cockpit primary where you can often position yourself over it and really bear down with both arms on a T-handle.

While it's helpful to study all the ratio's, be careful about over-thinking the problem. I used to do this for our prior 26 footer, and with more experience should have up-sized the winches quite a bit.

Still, as they say, "your boat your rules."

Regards,
Loren

 

[Christian Williams]

I don't think a main sheet ought to go through a clutch, but rather be able to run free. If it needs securing during reefing, any simple cleat works--if necessary at all (the sail is always luffing when being reefed).

 

[bigd14]

I added a clam cleat in front of the winch. As Christian says it’s rarely used, but there if needed. I mostly use it at the dock when getting the boom height adjusted to clear the cockpit. It’s in line with the main sheet run to the winch and it’s easy to mash the main sheet into the cleat quickly.

The port ST winch serves the main halyard, first reef lines and main sheet so the first reef can be taken in or shaken out from one position.

 

[Dave G.]

The port ST winch

bigd, what size winch is that ?

 

[Pete the Cat]

This is really a rare opportunity to upgrade those winches for another 30 years + .
Remember that housetop winches are for more than tensioning running rigging, and also for occasional use to haul a 200+ pound person easily up the mast. (and that may not happen at the place or time of your choosing.)

Your boar displaces about 9800#, and for comparison our O-34 displaces about 10600. Your basic sail area is about 497 sq. ft, and ours is approx. 546. Not a whole lot of difference. You have a powerful sail plan.

it's a good safety feature to have port and starboard winches of enough power that anyone crewing can hoist sails or people. Also, you may be hoisting someone up from the water with a Life Sling.
And.... it's more difficult to really get a good upper body position to use a housetop winch at best efficiency; unlike a cockpit primary where you can often position yourself over it and really bear down with both arms on a T-handle.

While it's helpful to study all the ratio's, be careful about over-thinking the problem. I used to do this for our prior 26 footer, and with more experience should have up-sized the winches quite a bit.

Still, as they say, "your boat your rules."

Regards,
Loren

I am able to directly lead the main halyard back to the primary winch (on my 32-200) with all the advantages you note (more powerful winch, more leverage over it, etc). you note and not try to use the halyard winch for cranking a person up. As you say, it is possible to overthink this. it is also very possible to over equip a boat (as Christian suggests a clutch on a mainsheet seems like a very bad idea--dangerous even IMHO). I have ST winches on the cabin top, but would probably not have them if I was starting over. A cam cleat would be easier for the mainsheet and line stoppers for the rest makes more sense than ST. But not enough improvement in function to change things out. FWIW. I think rigging is a personal matter to a large extent, but how you use the boat matters. If I was racing, I would not have a dodger at all. But my racing career is behind me and I rarely have a crew, so I am probably not mainstream in my use. Much on a boat is compromise and I have given up long ago on perfect and settled for good and safe.