Upgrade to original 16hp Universal

wparise

Junior Member
Hi all, first timer, and new sailor. I have an 84, 30+ at Dana Point in CA. Was in-laws now ours. Looking to upgrade the original 16hp diesel. Any suggestions for size and what something like that should cost? Using ballpark of 1hp/foot thinking gently used 30hp. thoughts?...
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
At about 9K displacement and with a bit over 25 foot of waterline, I would imagine that a Betamarine 20 (three cylinder) would be ample power. Modern diesels like that often have no larger of a footprint than the older-technology engines they are replacing.
There might be some inflation since we bought our new 25 hp Beta in 2018, for just under 10K. That was engine, upgrade panel, and upgrade alternator, and transmission. Nice package, IMHO. But then I would say that!
:)
I have some blog entries here showing the details of the re-powering adventure. We love this new diesel. A lot.
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
30hp is a lot for that boat and you may have major surgery to perform to get it in there. I have the same boat with the original 16hp Universal and it does the job fine. As Loren said the Beta 20hp would be my choice if I had to replace/upgrade.
 

wparise

Junior Member
Thanks for the feedback. With original 2 blade prop there were instances where my parents could not motor against the current and had to call for a tow to get back into the harbor. 3 blade prop helps, but as a newbie, still worry about being under powered if we get into a bad situation.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
It might be good to also revisit "assumptions" about your present drive train.
A lot (!) of stock sailboats have incorrect props installed, mostly from prior owners, but some from the factory.
If....your boat cannot hold it's calculated -displacement- speed against a moderate chop or headwind at the engine's rated cruising rpm, I would first take a hard look at the prop that is on it now.
A ton of sailboats have a fixed two blade that is not well optimized for the boat.

With that waterline and stock engine, I would expect 6 to 6.25 kts in flat water with no strain on the engine. Assuming a smooth bottom, of course.
Heck, we used to motor at 6 kts all day long with our 10 hp Honda on our prior 4K displacement 26 footer. That was after I had the prop re-pitched, BTW.

Anyhow, more HP is probably a great idea, but just be certain that the engine is not the only impediment to speedy progress. :)
 
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Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
Also make sure transmission is serviced and working as should. I have a 2 blade fixed prop with a 13 pitch and at 2300ish rpm do 6-6.5 knots depending on current. If the engine/transmission are running good and holding rpm I would look at the prop first and foremost.
 

bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
I agree check the prop. Our 30+ with same engine and a Campbell Sailor fixed 3 blade 12x7 prop will do the 6-6.25 knots that Loren mentions although that’s at WOT which for me is 2600-2800 rpm. My prop should probably be slightly repitched to achieve the full WOT rpm. 5-5.5 knots at 2000-2250 rpm is what we usually cruise at. We often fight a 2-3 knot current.

Edit- get a cheap rpm gauge from Harbor Freight or the like to get an accurate reading. The dial gauges are notoriously unreliable. If you can hit the rated WOT rpm of 3200 or pretty close with the transmission in gear the prop is sized correctly.
 
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Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
And, speaking of current, it will affect your ETA, but has nothing to do with your hull speed. Occasionally sailors blame their boat for making them "slow" when the problem is they have current (or wind and waves) against their chosen course.
Even using all of our "power" thru the water, we have sometimes been doing 7 kts thru the water and 0.5 over the ground.
Stupid trip planning & navigation on my part! :(
 

wparise

Junior Member
I have another question while I have your
attention, all the spec sheets I have seen on the 30+ show the traveler in the cockpit on the seat in front of the comapnion way, but mine is on top forward of the compnion way hatch. Do I not have the model I think I have?
 

Alan Gomes

Contributing Partner
It might be good to also revisit "assumptions" about your present drive train.
A lot (!) of stock sailboats have incorrect props installed, mostly from prior owners, but some from the factory.
If....your boat cannot hold it's calculated -displacement- speed against a moderate chop or headwind at the engine's rated cruising rpm, I would first take a hard look at the prop that is on it now.
A ton of sailboats have a fixed two blade that is not well optimized for the boat.

With that waterline and stock engine, I would expect 6 to 6.25 kts in flat water with no strain on the engine. Assuming a smooth bottom, of course.
Heck, we used to motor at 6 kts all day long with our 10 hp Honda on our prior 4K displacement 26 footer. That was after I had the prop re-pitched, BTW.

Anyhow, more HP is probably a great idea, but just be certain that the engine is not the only impediment to speedy progress. :)
I think it is very good advice to look at the prop. And if you do decide to change out props, I'm a big fan of the Campbell Sailer 3-blade. It is a very high performance prop with low drag and outstanding performance under power. Here's a great reivew of props in general and of the Campbell Sailer in particular.

The manufacturer gives great advice, by the way, so they will walk you through exactly the prop pitch and so forth that you need.
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
Do I not have the model I think I have?
What is your hull # ? They changed a few things on the 30+ in 1984 and the traveler location was one of those changes. Mine is #632 and the traveler is in the cockpit. So I'm guessing yours is a little later in the year. I've started calling the later models 30+II as there were quite a few changes made.
 

bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
It's either the Universal 5416 (16HP) engine or the Universal M18 (14HP) engine. A few of us 30+ owners have identified that there was a switch in engines as well as the deck configuration in 1984 (traveler moved to cabin top from bridge deck being the most notable change). Here are some pics of my M18, and the last one is of a 5416 (I think, found on web).

95762240-5B35-495B-8128-F6E36C3BEC03.jpegC31A1A36-4E4B-4661-9701-20E3615A1790.jpeg5416.jpg
 

woolamaloo

Member III
It's either the Universal 5416 (16HP) engine or the Universal M18 (14HP) engine. A few of us 30+ owners have identified that there was a switch in engines as well as the deck configuration in 1984 (traveler moved to cabin top from bridge deck being the most notable change). Here are some pics of my M18, and the last one is of a 5416 (I think, found on web).

View attachment 39693View attachment 39694View attachment 39695
How in the world did you get that middle picture? Did you cut away the bulkhead in the quarterberth to get the starboard access to the engine? There's no way I could get to my transmission on that side. (It looks very nice.)
 

wparise

Junior Member
That looks like mine too, but a boat survey report from 1991 calls it a Universal 16hp. Also lists the HIN as ERY30690M844
 

bigd14

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Did you cut away the bulkhead in the quarterberth to get the starboard access to the engine?
I sure did. One of the best upgrades I ever made. Blog here: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/e30-stern-access-pt-1.717/

EDIT: On pre-1984 model 30+ boats (with the bridge deck traveler) that bulkhead seems to be structural. It is not structural on the later cabintop traveler models.

Loren, the "Clean Machine" WAS quite clean back when those photos were taken about 4 years as I had just removed it to replace the strut and was able to clean everything up. It's not quite so clean now unfortunately! Time to get after it with the degreaser and rags I suppose.

wparise, there was much confusion from the broker, surveyor and diesel mechanic about what my engine was when I bought the boat. Eventually after much internet searching I determined it was the M18. The 5416 was the older model and was phased out by Ericson sometime between Franks boat (Hull 637 with the 5416) and mine (Hull 651 with the M18). But there may have been overlap or just random engine choices depending on Ericson's inventory at the time. With your boat being Hull 690 it seems like it would be the M18 engine. The 5416 intake manifold and air cleaner seems quite different from the M18. I think the definitive way to tell if it is the M18 is to find the engine block number Z600 stamped somewhere, representing the Kubota block number of the M18. I believe the 5416 block stamp would say Z751.

 

Keith Parcells

Contributing Partner
Is it possible that the M-18 was an optional upgrade?

Ericsons were production line boats but many options seemed to have been available.
 
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