Director98
Junior Member
Currently have Barient 22's on my Ericson 29. Would like to upgrade to a self tailing winch. What would be the corresponding Lewmar and or Harken winch? Maybe with just a little more leverage?
Upgrading to self tailing winches.
- Thread starter Director98
- Start date
Primaries for headsails? House top winches for halyards?
Director98
Junior Member
Head sail.
Some quick research on the 'net seems to say that the size 22 Baronet is either 35 or 39 to 1 for a power ratio.
Given that you always want the most power that will still fit on your combing, I would look at the Lewmar 40ST. By March these usually are on sale each year at the West Marine 2 for 1 sale, for a few days.
Director98
Junior Member
Thank you for the info. Just saw a pair of used 44st winches. Would this be too big for my boat (hard to maneuver around?)
Measure the OD of the proposed winch. Measure the bolt circle for the proposed winch. Measure the top and the underside of the combing where the washers and nuts will get installed. While the ones you are looking at might work with no difficulties, it's best to be sure.
(When I added secondaries to the combings on our prior 26 footer, I had to do this bit of pre-planning.)
Further, if considering old winches, no matter what brand, be sure that parts are still available for them. There were a lot of models and whole companies making winches back in the 70's and 80's that no longer exist, even tho the winches were very good products with good engineering, for their time.
Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
Overkill for your boat, but if they fit they would be just fine. It would actually be pretty nice to be able to winch in your genoa with your pinkie!
On my smaller E26, I upgraded the Lewmar 16 non-self tailers to Lewmar 30STs. That is bigger than I need for the #26, especially granting that it is a fractional rig. I got a great BOGO deal on them (through Minney's in Costa Mesa) and love the ease with which I can sheet my jib. Far better than being underpowered!
I replaced mine with the same and put a 16ST on the cabin top for the main (none there before). If the price of new winches is daunting, and you're up for a little elbow grease, I found mine from a used boat shop in Maryland - Anchors and Oars. I had a GREAT experience with Josh. I also bought some deck organizers and clutches from him. He stood behind some things that weren't up to snuff (that was hard to tell from pictures) and sent me replacements. Put in a request if it's not in stock. His inventory will increase as he gets back into salvage when the weather warms.
I got my winches for right around $1000 for all three. They were grimy - I documented my cleanup here. They're going on the boat this spring once it warms a bit. I have all the old holes filled and new holes over-drilled, filled, and ready to go.
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Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
Yes, I just did the same thing last week! I'd been hanging on to my 16s so I could use it to replace the anemic Lewmar 6 halyard winch. On the starboard side I now have the 2-speed Lewmar 16, two Lewmar DC-1 double rope clutches, and a new 4-sheave deck organizer. The Lewmar 16 has lots of power for getting my main luff tight and should do a great job on the cunningham. I've had the parts to do this for about a year and a half but no time to do it! So I finally got it installed next week and am itching to try it out.
Yep, I did the over-drill and fill routine also. Loren would be so proud of us as I know he is so fond of this technique, having done it 8,000 times or so on his obscenely perfect boat.
Looking good! I'm putting two double clutches in on that side, too. I'm also moving my main sheet to that side to use on the 16ST.
Did you have the original 2x or 3x Schaefer deck organizer on that side?
Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
I removed the Schaefer 2 sheave and went with a Garhauer 2x2. Much less friction than the old Schaefer.
By the way: I defied the conventional wisdom and ran my mainsheet through the inboard-most clutch. Many advise not to use a rope clutch on the mainsheet because, as the thinking goes, you might want to dump the mainsheet quickly, and getting to the rope clutch would delay doing that. However, I can't ever remember this being an issue since my dinghy sailing days. On my previous 30 footer I had the mainsheet in a rope clutch and never had a problem, as ready access to the traveler and/or simply heading up always served this function. On my E26 I have a really nice Garhauer ball bearing traveler, and I frequently adjust/dump the main with those controls, which are always at hand from where I am steering in the cockpit. Plus, even with the cam cleat setup for the main that I just removed, I doubt it's much if at all faster to dump with the cam cleat vs. reaching over to flick the lever on the rope clutch, as they are located in close to the same spot. And it's not as though I would keep the mainsheet in my hand all the time anyway, as I did when sailing a dinghy.
The rope clutch now lets me have the winch available for the main. There are some occasions where I need just a bit more tension on the leech than I can get with the current mainsail tackle. I can get close, but not quite enough. The winch, used judiciously, will let me dial in just a bit more tension to flatten the leech when needed.
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One caveat about upgrading your clutches and winches. Be sure that you do not make the "mistake of symmetry"......
Note that the lead from the bank of clutch exits has to try to aim for the side of the winch that starts the line turn onto the drum. You want that winch side to be "aimed" at the center point of the clutch bank, so that no line lead is any further off to the side than necessary.
A lot of boat builders would place housetop winches in exactly the same place adjacent to the side of the hatch slide so that newbies would be impressed by the symmetry of the arrangement, even tho not proper for the line lead to the winch.
EY did this. While not a huge deal in the greater scheme of things it's easiest to "do it right the first time" when you are upgrading gear.
The winch locations, port and starboard, will not be symmetrical, and that's correct.
Here is a picture of one side, from my blog, and the old epoxy-plugged holes all went away when we repainted the deck.
ericsonyachts.org
Note that the lead from the bank of clutch exits has to try to aim for the side of the winch that starts the line turn onto the drum. You want that winch side to be "aimed" at the center point of the clutch bank, so that no line lead is any further off to the side than necessary.
A lot of boat builders would place housetop winches in exactly the same place adjacent to the side of the hatch slide so that newbies would be impressed by the symmetry of the arrangement, even tho not proper for the line lead to the winch.
EY did this. While not a huge deal in the greater scheme of things it's easiest to "do it right the first time" when you are upgrading gear.
The winch locations, port and starboard, will not be symmetrical, and that's correct.
Here is a picture of one side, from my blog, and the old epoxy-plugged holes all went away when we repainted the deck.
O34 - New Housetop Winches & Clutches
The June-July project was to 1) replace the factory Lewmar ST30 winch on each side, 2) replace the out-of-production clutch stoppers on each side, and 3) move both winches aft toward the rear edge and move the clutch array back to make them a lot...
Attachments
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New Clutches_Winch in place.jpg
Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
I believe you are correct, Loren, and in that regard I think my placement leaves something to be desired. I did take this issue somewhat into account as I was laying it out, but my execution was flawed. For some reason I was overly concerned about moving the clutch bank too far outboard, granting the location of my deck organizer. But I should have moved those clutches more outboard than I did. (The winch could not be moved farther inboard than where I placed it.)One caveat about upgrading your clutches and winches. Be sure that you do not make the "mistake of symmetry"......
Note that the lead from the bank of clutch exits has to try to aim for the side of the winch that starts the line turn onto the drum. You want that winch side to be "aimed" at the center point of the clutch bank, so that no line lead is any further off to the side than necessary.
A lot of boat builders would place housetop winches in exactly the same place adjacent to the side of the hatch slide so that newbies would be impressed by the symmetry of the arrangement, even tho not proper for the line lead to the winch.
EY did this. While not a huge deal in the greater scheme of things it's easiest to "do it right the first time" when you are upgrading gear.
The winch locations, port and starboard, will not be symmetrical, and that's correct.
Here is a picture of one side, from my blog, and the old epoxy-plugged holes all went away when we repainted the deck.
O34 - New Housetop Winches & Clutches
The June-July project was to 1) replace the factory Lewmar ST30 winch on each side, 2) replace the out-of-production clutch stoppers on each side, and 3) move both winches aft toward the rear edge and move the clutch array back to make them a lot...
Speaking in terms of "the greater scheme of things," I realized that this may actually work out fine in practical life, despite my screw-up. The lead is perfect for the red line, which is the main halyard. (I did make sure of that.) This is the one that I'm going to really crank on. The one immediately next to it will be the Cunningham, which will also get some tension, but not give this winch much of a workout. It's lead, while not optimum, isn't terrible. The mainsheet, on the far left (inboard), actually may be just where it will serve me best, albeit by dumb luck. It has the worst lead for the winch, but I will likely almost never use the winch on it. And when I do take a winch to it I will be very careful not to crank on it too hard so as not to break stuff. Having it where it is might make it easier to access for the way I'm going to be using it since it may better clear the drum. I won't know until I actually sail the boat; we shall see.
So yeah, I'd say that was a less than stellar job. I'll see if it bugs me enough to re-do it, but if it works fine then I may just leave well enough alone.
Good reminders, Loren. I hopefully got mine right - I tried to lay them out with that consideration. Time will tell.
Don't you also have the issue of the traveler mount if you go too far outboard? Mine is still on the companionway hood, but after seeing your layout, I'm now worried I'll have to move everything if I decide to upgrade my traveler.
Thanks for posting this again, Christian. I'm so glad you posted this in my winch rebuild thread as I had no idea this was a thing. With the mounting holes being quite specific, it's important to get the orientation right. I'm confident I'll at least have this part right.
Alan Gomes
Sustaining Partner
True. But I still didn’t get it quite right.