Waves, Steering, Broaching

[goldenstate]

People talk about god speaking to them in revelations to help guide their lives.

Yesterday for me it wasn't god, but the Coast Guard. I had gone out to mix it up a little in higher wind and higher waves, for you know, practice.
If you only sail when conditions are good, how will you know what to do when conditions are bad?

In truth, the conditions weren't all that bad - I had a nice blue sky at least high variable winds, and some waves. Under the GGB I found east bound incoming wind and waves meeting a strong ebb tide and a lot of liquid chaos. Here's the point when I had developed some ambivalence, and the Coast Guard added, "Pleasure Craft should stay in port."

I decided that was meant for me and I went home.

So, a couple of questions:

1. Does a below-deck ram autopilot do a substantially better job of dealing with the back-and-forth oscillations of trying to steer down waves in a following sea?

2. How bad of an idea is trying to intentionally broach one's boat for practice? I'm a little unclear on what qualifies as a broach. I think it involves a substantial rollover so that one loses control of the rudder and maybe even puts the mast in the water. So if I had a reefed main, maybe a completely furled jib, and clipped in to the cockpit, closed up the companionway, and put her beam-to some waves, I think I could get my boat over pretty far.

Will I be putting catastrophic stress on my rigging etc? On one hand "the boat is made to do it" on the other hand, I'd feel pretty dumb if I did this and folded my mast, and was left crying for help on a VHF hand-held.

 

[Christian Williams]

1. Do you mean better than a wheel pilot? I imagine so. But any electric pilot is challenged by downwind with waves at a quartering angle, and I think downwind success depends on input from a wind instrument. A vane handles downwind very well, up to seas big enough to block the wind flow over it. Wing and wing it handles it perfectly when the sail plan is set for neutral helm. With a downwind course and quartering seas discomfort ensues, and the best idea I ever had was to alter course to put the seas directly behind.

2. To my mind a broach is just an uncommanded sudden and radical heading up into the wind. The centripetal force throws the boat on its side, perhaps "spreaders in the water" (usually an exaggeration). It happens because when heel gets out of hand the rudder is no longer effective, yahoo. Spinnaker broaches are common in racing. A jibe broach, with its crashing boom, is even more exciting and usually caused by helmsman error, or simply pushing it too much on the race course.

The Ericson 32 hull, with too much sail set, simply cannot go any faster downwind. The result of excessive propulsive force is a turn induced by the hull shape. A helmsman can keep going straight by skillful and constant corrections, surfing down waves and anticipating gusts. But a helmsman cannot do much when a large quartering sea lifts the stern and slews the boat, and once that begins the result is a broach. I have broached on a 61-footer with huge spinnaker and blooper and full mainsail, which was $10,000-worth in blown sail and left a crew of 21 dangling from whatever they could grab hold of. Damage, other than the blown-out sails: none.

It's easy to try a broach for the fun of it. When sailing downwind, just let go of the helm. In light air the boat will turn and head up. In heavy air, the turn will be more exciting and the heel max. You end up with sails flapping and the boat saying, "Oh, did I wake you up?"

An uncommanded jibe should not break stuff. With a cruising boat mast and no running backstays it should put no excessive strain on the rig. The danger is to personnel, and to a loose traveler car. But even a tack can damage a traveler car that is unsecured. Yes, the boat is made to do it.

My favorite broach approach is from Brian Boschma of Pelagic autopilots. The guys in the SSS Transpac tend to have tillers and fly spinnakers at night whilst sleeping. "I usually put the spreaders in the water half a dozen times on the way to Hawaii."

 

[goldenstate]

1. Do you mean better than a wheel pilot? I imagine so. But any electric pilot is challenged by downwind with waves at a quartering angle, and I think downwind success depends on input from a wind instrument. A vane handles downwind very well, up to seas big enough to block the wind flow over it. Wing and wing it handles it perfectly when the sail plan is set for neutral helm. With a downwind course and quartering seas discomfort ensues, and the best idea I ever had was to alter course to put the seas directly behind.

I meant wheel pilot and/or vane pilot. Yesterday I had for @30 minutes 6-8 foot waves in close, inconsistent frequency (10 seconds). Going upwind, into the waves, the EV-100 did alright. I did not have the Aries deployed properly so I can't use it as much of a basis for analysis. Going downwind, with the waves, there was just too much yaw and I could feel the broaching at hand. I wound up hand-steering, but I know that would be rather difficult to carry on with for more than a few hours. I think the short frequency of the waves was in part a result of the tidal action with water rushing out through the golden gate. Do you have a guesstimate for what the 'typical' wavelength you faced on your Hawaii trips, Christian?

2. To my mind a broach is just an uncommanded sudden and radical heading up into the wind. The centripetal force throws the boat on its side, perhaps "spreaders in the water" (usually an exaggeration). It happens because when heel gets out of hand the rudder is no longer effective, yahoo. Spinnaker broaches are common in racing. A jibe broach, with its crashing boom, is even more exciting and usually caused by helmsman error, or simply pushing it too much on the race course.

The Ericson 32 hull, with too much sail set, simply cannot go any faster downwind. The result of excessive propulsive force is a turn induced by the hull shape. A helmsman can keep going straight by skillful and constant corrections, surfing down waves and anticipating gusts. But a helmsman cannot do much when a large quartering sea lifts the stern and slews the boat, and once that begins the result is a broach. I have broached on a 61-footer with huge spinnaker and blooper and full mainsail, which was $10,000-worth in blown sail and left a crew of 21 dangling from whatever they could grab hold of. Damage, other than the blown-out sails: none.

It's easy to try a broach for the fun of it. When sailing downwind, just let go of the helm. In light air the boat will turn and head up. In heavy air, the turn will be more exciting and the heel max. You end up with sails flapping and the boat saying, "Oh, did I wake you up?"

An uncommanded jibe should not break stuff. With a cruising boat mast and no running backstays it should put no excessive strain on the rig. The danger is to personnel, and to a loose traveler car. But even a tack can damage a traveler car that is unsecured. Yes, the boat is made to do it.

I see. Based on this definition I already have one 'holy smokes' broach under my belt, when I was gusted while sailing downwind last fall with maybe a smidge too much sail coming back under the GGB. I know what that feels like. I thought this was called "rounding up" but maybe that term also applies.

I recall you writing that you enjoyed several broaches on the way to Hawaii and I wondered how far over that meant the boat went.

My favorite broach approach is from Brian Boschma of Pelagic autopilots. The guys in the SSS Transpac tend to have tillers and fly spinnakers at night whilst sleeping. "I usually put the spreaders in the water half a dozen times on the way to Hawaii."

I only have encountered Brian once, and he seemed like a very reliable source. Sort of an Indiana Jones professorial / adventurer air. Here's a talk he gave on long range communications for the SSS last season:

As always, thank you for the replies to my queries.

 

[G Kiba]

Tom...
With regard to broaching. It's a little like pornography. You know it when you see it! Or in this case, when it happens to you! Typically this happens if you fly a spinnaker in more wind than you can handle. You can broach to weather or to lee. To weather usually result in an unintentional gybe. So yes it can damage the boat. Sounds like you were out on Saturday. We sailed from Richmond through Racoon Straits to Corinthian YC on a single tack and then flew the kite back to Richmond. Great day! The wind picked up when we turned at 3ish. By SF bay standards, that was nothing! The winds will build from Spring to Summer and the slot will become a real challenge with regular 20-30mph winds along with thick fog. If you want to watch boats broach - you will see plenty in the slot this summer. You can also go to YouTube and search on "Chinese gybe". Many of the videos are shot right here in the bay. BTW, broaching is not the end of the world or your boat. It's been my experience that after the 5th time in a row, the screaming is replaced by "here we go again". It's the humiliation of cleaning up the kite and the adrenaline rush of broaching that make it a memorable experience.

 

[Christian Williams]

Tom, the wheel pilot can't handle waves or yaw--it can't anticipate. It's for motoring or pleasant conditions, as you know.

But if the boat will sail itself it can be pushed beyond its natural limitations. If a helmsman has to make quick corrections--well, a wheel pilot can't do that, so it's time to hand steer. As usual, all about neutral helm for any self-steerer device.

Regarding wavelength, it's usually pretty long in the trades. A quartering sea occasionally occurs if a swell system is at odds with the wind, usually a vane can handle it. I imagine the screwball conditions under the GG bridge would toss a boat around a lot and defeat a wheel pilot.

 

[steven]

When I raced the working definition of broach was the rudder sufficiently parallel to the surface of the water that you cannot steer. You just spin the wheel back and forth helplessly with the rudder in the air as the boat lays down on her side or whatever because you have no control.

There are several real dangers of a spinnaker borach ranging from tearing the spinnker to dismasting to sinking. I think it is a good idea and kind of fun to practice a broach, but without a kite and don't fall out of the boat.

--Steve

 

[G Kiba]

Tom, In heavy wind (15-18), I will quickly crank the tiller to windward to spin some crazy 360s. I know the move is not great for the rig but it's a hell of a lot of fun and great to know that you can do in an emergency. In no way do I compare that to a spinnaker broach. Not even close. Hopefully when covid is over you will come sailing with us! I bet we can get close to a spinnaker broach if you really want the experience!

 

[Christian Williams]

Leave this audio track on and a broach is terrifying heroic and only for the chosen.

Turn the sound off and it's standard stuff--if you don't happen to be in a crowd of boats..

 

[Filkee]

Looks like dinghy sailing. Kinda like an e32.

 

[goldenstate]

Looks like dinghy sailing. Kinda like an e32.

Well, I know (from experience) what happens if I put the C-15 mast in the water - I have to swim around and climb on the centerboard.

I kind-of want to do the same thing with the E32 - I just know it won't help much to swim over and stand on the keel. I think the big boat would stand up much quicker.

 

[paul culver]

For downwind manual steering stand directly behind the wheel with legs spread equally to either side. Grab the wheel at the classic 10 to and 10 after positions. Do NOT change the positions of your hands. As the boat rolls and you lean side to side you will experience a feedback loop between the boat, your legs, your body and hands that will keep you close to course. It is a thing of beauty. Too many people are constantly spinning the wheel left to right with the clanging of their wedding bands on the stainless. Not good.

 

[Rick R.]

Broached in opposing wind and tide scenario once coming in Pensacola pass......the look on the Admiral‘s face was priceless.

 

[nquigley]

Leave this audio track on and a broach is terrifying heroic and only for the chosen.

Turn the sound off and it's standard stuff--if you don't happen to be in a crowd of boats..

A common type of damage in a broaches like these if the end of the boom gets dragged heavily through the water, is a broken boom - with the break happening where the vang attaches the boom - the crew is seldom quick enough, or able, to release the vang in time.

 

[steven]

I don't know about the C-15, but on a 505 the trick was to get onto the certerboard before the mast was in the water. Wouldn't try it on an E32 - though they (and the E35) do feel like big dinghys.

Responding to Paul's post. Want to have some fun ?
Go out in a brisk wind and see if you can sail to weather with blindfold on. (recommended that you have a lookout aboard).

 

[paul culver]

Responding to Paul's post. Want to have some fun ?
Go out in a brisk wind and see if you can sail to weather with blindfold on. (recommended that you have a lookout aboard).

Ah, but my method is for downwind, not to weather. But now I wonder whether vision is a necessary component of the feedback loop, and your proposal is an excellent hypothesis test. (I'm a retired scientist and I can't turn it off)

 

[paul culver]

And sailing to weather the feedback loop is aural. Steer into the wind until you hear flap-flap-flap, then fall off a tad. Fall off too much and the heel increases. This one should be easier blind-folded.

 

[Christian Williams]

You gentlemen got me thinking (stop that!).

For me at least, the whole thing is heel. Blindfolded to windward, I'd judge by heel. If the boat stopped heeling, I'd head up until it did. If I headed up too far and the heel reduced, I'd know to bear off a little. Heel would be the big factor.

Dead downwind, on a dark night, the unconscious monitor of heel is constant. The boat rolls and heels a little both ways, you feel it as normal. It means you're going in a straight line. But if a roll grows to have more heel than expected, I am instantly alerted to the possibility of a broach. This happens even while more or less asleep. Will-it-come-back-will-itcome back-will it come back? Ah, OK. When it's pitch black no blindfold is needed but heel allows complete visualization.

This doesn't seem true for me otherwise in life. I just tried standing on one leg with my eyes closed and was quite unsteady. Visual is the big sense for that, if you're me.

Occasionally a kid wants to learn to sail my pram (very, very occasionally). The blindfold trick to windward might work to help them get the feel.

 

[nquigley]

And, of course, there's ... https://www.blindsailinginternation... Impaired sailing activities and achievements.

SailBlind Program - The Carroll Center for the Blind

SailBlind, hosted by The Carroll Center for the Blind, provides blind and visually impaired persons with an opportunity to learn how to sail. Join us today!

carroll.org

etc

 

[steven]

re aural. To weather I usually sit on the low side.
After awhile you become attuned to the sound of the bow wave.
I have experimented a bit and think the feedback of the slight sound change as you slide out of the slot is faster than the pressure change on the helm.