Where is the bilge pump?

[Scyph]

Finally made it to my boat. Still figuring things out. But... of all the things to defeat me, the one that did is the bilge pump. The electric one is broken. The manual pump is supposed to be... somewhere... inside the portside locker (diagram).

I have a handle sticking out from the inside into the cockpit, but I don't see a bigle hose connected to the handle like the pump is supposed to have in the diagram (photo). When I start pumping, the water doesn't come out. Should I pump longer? The previous owner told me that it takes a while for the water to start coming out, because first you need to pump out all the air.

 

[Vagabond39]

It sounds like time to get into the port locker. Check from the transom thru hull back to the pump. If that hose is connected and intact. Check the suction hose from the pump down to the bildge. Their may be a "y" in the discharge hose from the electric pump. Try placing the suction hose in a bucket of water, to see if the pump works. If so check for a clogged strainer in the bildge.
Good luck!

 

[Scyph]

My problem is that I can't find ANY of those. I don't know what to look for because I don't know what's what, and what anything should look like. Is there maybe a labeled photograph out there somewhere?

I'll give it another look after sundown. With the sun up, I can't even trace a huge black hose into the shadows. I'll attach pictures soon. Anyway, this is what I SUSPECT is the bilge pump handle:

 

[Slick470]

That would be the gear shift and throttle for the inboard engine.

The bilge pump will most likely have a removable handle that fits in a hole with a rubber bellows type gasket around it. I don't have a picture handy but perhaps someone else does.

 

[Vagabond39]

Look at yopur transom for a round hole above the waterline, That wwould be the discharge thru hull. On the inside there should be a hose, probably looks libke a vacuum cleaner hose, and about the sane size. Trace it back to the bildg pump. Your drawing states "optional" and may be refering to an electric pump at that location. The manual pumps were normaly Whale Gushers about 8" across, 5" thiock, with a handle braccket attached to a rubber diaphram sandwiched between an outter round plate and an inner plate. Tha handle may be removable. Your Pix was of engine controls.

 

[Scyph]

Momentary stupidity. I never bothered to find out anything about the engine because it got taken out way way back, so these handles are cockpit decorations now. Anyways, with some help from my awesome neighbor and the previous owner, I finally found the actual handle for the bilge pump. Thing is, there's a white "vacuum hose" that comes out of it, but it's not connected to the thick black "vacuum hose" that would either be engine exhaust or bilge pump discharge hose. I connected it, but all my pump does now is sucks air in-out-in-out-in-out.

 

[Loren Beach]

I never bothered to find out anything about the engine because it got taken out way way back, so these handles are cockpit decorations now. Anyways, with some help from my awesome neighbor and the previous owner, I finally found the actual handle for the bilge pump. Thing is, there's a white "vacuum hose" that comes out of it, but it's not connected to the thick black "vacuum hose" that would either be engine exhaust or bilge pump discharge hose. I connected it, but all my pump does now is sucks air in-out-in-out-in-out.

If your boat was converted from inboard (gas A4, we presume) to an outboard on the transom, just remove those line-snagging old shift/throttle handles and cover the hole with a piece of G10 or Starboard material.

As for the old bilge hoses, probably way past time to replace them and check on the integrity of the thru-hull as well as the strum box. Not a lot of expense in this, just the fun of working in the constricted aft end of the boat.
Good news is that you will know your boat a lot better when you get this done and will gain confidence in your abilities.

In that era, the boat probably had/has one electric bilge pump and one manual one that should be useable from the helm position when you insert the handle.

If you have some pics of the inside of the laz or other stern areas, do post 'em up. Much easier to visualize for us and the advice will be more focused and (hopefully) useful.

Best,
Loren
(who has spent many hours in those parts of all of his boats... -sigh- )

 

[Scyph]

I have pics I was trying to post earlier, but crummy boat wireless... anyway, I'm preaching to the choir.

If that pic (finally) uploaded, then you see the white hose that comes out of the pump and the black hose that goes down to what I think is the bilge discharge. I think they're supposed to be connected. I connected them, but nothing happens when I pump---just air running back and forth.

 

[bigd14]

I would strongly advise getting that above-board gas tank out of the bilge! Thats an explosion waiting to happen...

 

[Scyph]

It's not in the bilge. It's in the portside locker. The bilgewater is waaaaay lower.

 

[Morgan Stinemetz]

Gas tank on port side

All gas tanks have to vent when in use. You can close them down tight when not in use, though. You apparently have an electrical connection right next to the gas tank. One spark and you could be out of business. The black hose in the picture looks like a left over hose from the inboard. I doubt it does anything. I've never had an inboard. Outboard on a 27 for 30+ years. That a big gas tank. You have a 2-cycle engine? My Honda 4-stroke used a 2-1/2 gallon tank.

 

[MarkA]

I'm betting there's no bilge blower. Even if there is, you don't want a gas tank venting to the interior. BOOM!Where does that white hose lead to? I see one end connected to the pump. Follow the other end. It should terminate either in the bilge, or at a through hull.There should be another hose connected to the side of the pump opposite the white hose. Is there? If so, follow it.The black hose is not what one would expect to find on a bilge pump, although it seems small for an exhaust hose.If the pump is pumping air, then the lift hose is not sitting in water.Please don't be eager to untie and leave the dock until you know what all parts of the boat are meant to do. This thread scares me.

 

[davisr]

Scyph,

Many of us have purchased boats similar to yours, and many of us have spent a lot of time (and money) fixing the errors of others. That picture you posted - with hoses going nowhere, a gasoline tank, and electrical cords haphazardly placed atop the gas tank - is probably a sign of more problems with the boat. I'd be willing to be that the electrical system is screwy - black electical tape and lamp cord here and there. Before you repeat the errors of others (like buying the first bilge pump your see, or the first bilge pump that some sales associate who's been on the job at West Marine for a total of one week tells you is really good, or buying some hose you see labled as "bilge hose"), I'd buy a book or two to help you plot a strategy for getting the boat up to good working order. I have quite a few books, and I'd recommend this one, by Don Casey, over any other:

http://www.amazon.com/This-Old-Boat...7942/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333842514&sr=8-1

There is some satisfaction in knowing your doing the job right. Everyone is here to help when you get stumped.

Regards,
Roscoe
E25, #226

 

[Scyph]

Well, I'm new to boats and boating, and I don't know what's what ANYWHERE. I spent too much time reading up on how to fix the "big" problems (recore the soft spot, fix fittings that go through the deck, all that sort of stuff), but I never focused on the routine parts. I don't know how to start an outboard; I don't know where my water tank is located; I don't know how to put up sails; how to untie from a dock; how to tie back to the dock; and probably a gazilion other things that are so, so basic that nobody is even asking about them here. In all fairness, my first time on a sailboat (little tiny daysailor) was February 18. I bought my Ericson 27 on March 18, and now is my first time here since then. The closest anyone in my family has ever come to sailing is riding a ferry to Ocracoke. Don't judge me too harshly. Right now, I'm just proud of myself for knowing what the pointy end of a sailboat is called.

Also: white hose that goes off to the right is from the bilge. The white hose that goes off the to left and ends in the shadows isn't connected to anything.

That electrical business over there in the locker is for shorepower. It's never used at the same time as the motor. I guess that's why none of the previous owners had gone BOOM. But I'll look into fixing that... later.

davisr: I have that book!!! Reading it now....

 

[bigd14]

No worries, Scyph, many of us have been in the same boat at one time. In fact, I'm feeling like a real newbie today myself, as our first attempted outing of the year today featured a collision with our slip neighbor when a gust of wind blew the bow around just at the critical moment when we started moving forward but didn't yet have the rudder "biting". As it was late in the day we retreated to the slip to nurse wounds and pride... The boat is a real bear to get turned around properly in any kind of breeze with the outboard not pushing on the rudder.

So we may start the year out with an insurance issue!

Anyway, address the real life threatening issues first like fuel venting below decks and lousy wiring then worry about the rest!

Doug

 

[MarkA]

BOOM can happen when old rusty shore power cords that probably have questionable contacts are plugged into the shore power. If there are gas fumes down there (they are heavier than air so you won't smell them unless you're way down in the bottom of the bilge), then the tiniest arc between the contacts can blow the boat to the tiniest of pieces. So please get the gas outta there before you plug in.

As for the white hose, it looks like one end is connected to the bilge pump--am I correct (or is that a check valve to prevent backflow)? Either way, there should be another hose on the other side of whatever piece of hardware that is. Meanwhile, the other end of the white hose should either be down in the bilge, or connected to a through hull fitting well above the waterline.

Take pictures of all the holes in your hull that you can find--starting from the outside, and then from the inside. It is imperative that you know what each hole does, and that it is properly hooked up. Post pictures here and we can help you sort that out.

If you have the desire (and cajones) to purchase a boat this size only a month after stepping foot on the water for the first time, then you're going to get up to speed in no time. But start with the basics before getting into re-coring decks, etc. Make sure it ain't gonna sink, blow up, or electrocute anyone first.

Good luck!

 

[davisr]

Scyph,

I wasn't trying to give you a hard time. Just letting you know that almost all of us have had headaches because of the mistakes that prior owners have made. Here are two pictures that I took just before purchasing my boat. The surveyor told me the first thing I needed to do was get that gas tank out of the cockpit locker. The entire boat smelled like gasoline. The lazarette and the bilge were covered with an oily residue from the condensation of gas. Also check out the manual bilge pump in the other cockpit locker. The rubber is dryrotted and the device itself is covered with dirt-dobber nests (like so many other things in the boat). See the daylight coming through the hole in the background? There is no hose connecting the bilge pump to the through-hull. These two pictures say a lot about other problems I faced (and continue to face, since the refit is still taking place).

Regards,
Roscoe

 

[seajunkie]

Newbie

When I bought my first non trailer sailboat, I was a little overwhelmed. I hired an captain for a day. He showed my wife and me around the boat. We went out and he got us comfortable with getting on and off the mooring, docking, and others basic. The next time we went out, it was a lot more fun.My old boat had an outboard and gas tank in a well that vented to the outside. Where is this gas tank supposed to go? I did a quick web search and many others are keeping a tank in the locker. That seems really dangerous, but where should it go?If that were my boat, I would take everything off of it. I would clean every square inch, inventory what I had, take pictures of where everything was, and post pictures with questions of everything that is unknown. You will learn a lot about the boat. When you put things back, you will learn about the boat. I would bet that you find some things, good or bad that you didn't t know about. While doing that, get a list to prioritize what you have.

 

[Vagabond39]

Scyph:
Everone is trying to help. A new boat can always be a challaenge. This is an oppurtunity to learn the boat. What is good, and what shouls be corrected. The ols inboard engin hoses and thru huls are an example. As is the fule tank.
My Ericson had one way under the cockpit soal, still had fule in it after about a decade on the hard.
Plus electrical standards have changed since they were built. As have the valves for thru hulls. Where a multi turn gate valve was good back then, a 1 /4 turn ball valve is much faster operating when push comes to shove.
Old Hoses are prone to failure. Two hose clamps should connect each hose to the valve.
Now is the time to see what you have, and what you should have. A to do list, and a budget and schedule help
Lubricating winches, valves, and checking the rigging before your safety is on the line.
Good luck, and HAVE FUN

 

[Scyph]

Thank you everyone for great advice. I'm going to ask the previous owner to come over here and show me what's what. We haven't been on the boat together yet, so hopefully I'll get all of the little questions answered. I did photograph everything. When I'm back to reliable wireless, I'll make a new thread and post everything here. Right now, though, I don't have the time for any major projects. It took me 4 days to do just the wood parts, and I'm not even 100% happy with the results. Before I come back here in 3 weeks, I'll read up on all of this, and talk it over with y'all, and hopefully won't spend another 3 hours trying to figure out the darned bilge pump!