Lucky Dog
Member III
Clarification on soft decks
Assuming the deck/coach roof is not 100% cored with wood to the inner linner, I am trying to find out where there might be solid fiberglasss. I am hoping to cut around the tread areas and to keep the new seams in the smooth areas. My concern is that as I remove large sections of thread areas I will discover solid fiberglass and will not be able to continue the removable.
ml
Assuming the deck/coach roof is not 100% cored with wood to the inner linner, I am trying to find out where there might be solid fiberglasss. I am hoping to cut around the tread areas and to keep the new seams in the smooth areas. My concern is that as I remove large sections of thread areas I will discover solid fiberglass and will not be able to continue the removable.
ml
Locating plywood core uder the deck.
Mark, Welcome aboard and although what I'm about to share isn't specific to your boat, it might act as an aid in locating your wood. Please visit the E31 web site, specifically http://e31.no-ip.com/photos.asp?DirAddtl=Docs. Download the brochure and when there, go to page four. The illustration in the upper right corner shows where plywood is located in our boats and might serve as help to you if the layouts are anything similar. I believe the plywood to be 3/4" but cannot be 100% sure. Marty, owner of E31 hull #22 or David, owner of E31 hull #44 could chime in to confirm that. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
Mark, Welcome aboard and although what I'm about to share isn't specific to your boat, it might act as an aid in locating your wood. Please visit the E31 web site, specifically http://e31.no-ip.com/photos.asp?DirAddtl=Docs. Download the brochure and when there, go to page four. The illustration in the upper right corner shows where plywood is located in our boats and might serve as help to you if the layouts are anything similar. I believe the plywood to be 3/4" but cannot be 100% sure. Marty, owner of E31 hull #22 or David, owner of E31 hull #44 could chime in to confirm that. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
Mark;
You may want to consider replacing the core from the underside - to keep the deck top layer intact.
It is likely that your deck is entirely cored with balsa, with plywood in the high-load areas.
The method I used on my E-34 was to remove the headliner, set a circular saw to about 1/4 inch, and cut the underside of the deck. This exposed the wet material. Continue cutting until you get to dry wood - or until you get to the edges where there is no core.
The wood will come out in wet pieces and without too much effort, you can scrape, chisel, and sand to the fiberglass skin of the deck.
The core can then be replaced with the same material - scored balsa if it's a shaped area, or marine plywood if it's a high-load area. The core is glued in with thickened epoxy. The underside of the deck is then replaced with several layers of biaxial glass, overlapping the remaining inner liner by successive 2 inch overlaps. Vacuum bagging is the best way to hold the material in place while it cures, but another alternative is to support a piece of 1/4 plywood, wrapped in plastic against the underside by an array of dowels.
It's a messy job, but I did this several years ago and have very good results.
Best Regards;
Steve
You may want to consider replacing the core from the underside - to keep the deck top layer intact.
It is likely that your deck is entirely cored with balsa, with plywood in the high-load areas.
The method I used on my E-34 was to remove the headliner, set a circular saw to about 1/4 inch, and cut the underside of the deck. This exposed the wet material. Continue cutting until you get to dry wood - or until you get to the edges where there is no core.
The wood will come out in wet pieces and without too much effort, you can scrape, chisel, and sand to the fiberglass skin of the deck.
The core can then be replaced with the same material - scored balsa if it's a shaped area, or marine plywood if it's a high-load area. The core is glued in with thickened epoxy. The underside of the deck is then replaced with several layers of biaxial glass, overlapping the remaining inner liner by successive 2 inch overlaps. Vacuum bagging is the best way to hold the material in place while it cures, but another alternative is to support a piece of 1/4 plywood, wrapped in plastic against the underside by an array of dowels.
It's a messy job, but I did this several years ago and have very good results.
Best Regards;
Steve
Lucky Dog
Member III
more clarification
I am beginning to understand that either balsawood or plywood are sandwiched betweenthe liner and the deck/coach roof. Does this sound like a thread of knowledge worth following?
Thanks for all you help. I never thought I would ever owe a boat like this and find such a helpful community. I feel like a kid again.
ml
I am beginning to understand that either balsawood or plywood are sandwiched betweenthe liner and the deck/coach roof. Does this sound like a thread of knowledge worth following?
Thanks for all you help. I never thought I would ever owe a boat like this and find such a helpful community. I feel like a kid again.
ml
Hi Mark,
you are correct in your assessment on construction Just to help on the learning side of how this all goes together, check out my website and the section on recoring the deck under my mast step:
http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/core/looksbad.html
and note on the bottom of the page there are links to navigate up to my projects section, whereupon you'll find some other stuff. Some of the links, like the A4, have a lot behind them.
you are correct in your assessment on construction Just to help on the learning side of how this all goes together, check out my website and the section on recoring the deck under my mast step:
http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/core/looksbad.html
and note on the bottom of the page there are links to navigate up to my projects section, whereupon you'll find some other stuff. Some of the links, like the A4, have a lot behind them.
gareth harris
Sustaining Member
It is all cored with either balsa or plywood, all at 0.5" thickness.
Specifically, the plywood base to the cockpit cubby holes extends forward to form the deck core to more or less the front of the cockpit, it also extends aft to the transom. The cockpit floor is all balsa, but around the rudder stock there is an extra layer of 0.75" plywood glass under the deck. Under the aft inner shrouds, where they attack through the deck, is an area of plywood coring. Under the mast the core is made from strips of plywood, and for a few inches either side.
You can either work on it from above or below. If you have fairly large areas to work on, your original idea of cutting around the non skid areas is probably the best bet; working from above has the advantage of your rebuild staying where you put it while it sets, rather than having to hold it up inside, plus you will leave the headliner intact. If it is just a small area, Steve's suggestion of working inside may work out better, so you will not have a blotchy deck to worry about.
Technology has moved on since 1974, take a look at this for a new coring material:
http://www.diabgroup.com/americas/u_literature/u_pdf_files/u_ds_pdf/H_DS_U.pdf
I used the Divinycell H60 for the new core, except where extra strength is required (under the mast or wincehs etc), where the Renicell E320 has the required tolerances.
It is a big job to start out with on your new boat; it is also fairly common for balsa decks to get like that. But you have got yourself a great sailing boat, once the work is done.
Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972
Lucky Dog
Member III
Thank you Gareth,
Thank you Gareth,
The boat is halfway here from Michigan. Will be here tommorrow morning.
Any suggestions on what cutting tool works best. I am planning on using a small rotary blade to cut through the fiberglass. Fein makes a detail sander that has attachment for removing grout I from ceramic tiles. Looks like a putty knife with teeth on the end that saw perpendicularly to the handle.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o
></o>
Thank you Gareth,
The boat is halfway here from Michigan. Will be here tommorrow morning.
Any suggestions on what cutting tool works best. I am planning on using a small rotary blade to cut through the fiberglass. Fein makes a detail sander that has attachment for removing grout I from ceramic tiles. Looks like a putty knife with teeth on the end that saw perpendicularly to the handle.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
fficeffice" /><o></o>
JMS
Member II
Mark, here is a link to an invaluable resource for anyone repairing or restoring an older FG sailboat: Tim Lackey’s Plastic Classic Forum.
Deck repairs and recores have been discussed many times on Plastic Classics. There are a number of threads with photos showing the whole process from start to finish. BTW, there is also a tool section with a number of posts about the Fein.
Deck repairs and recores have been discussed many times on Plastic Classics. There are a number of threads with photos showing the whole process from start to finish. BTW, there is also a tool section with a number of posts about the Fein.
Last edited:
gareth harris
Sustaining Member
Any suggestions on what cutting tool works best. I am planning on using a small rotary blade to cut through the fiberglass. Fein makes a detail sander that has attachment for removing grout I from ceramic tiles. Looks like a putty knife with teeth on the end that saw perpendicularly to the handle.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com
I tried using a dremel with a rotary cutting tool initially, when I was trying to keep the cut as neat as possible. It worked, but was very slow, and I went through the overpriced cutting discs quite quickly. As my work area expanded, I started using a 4.5" grinder. The cheap cutting discs worked, but did not last long, and it was far more cost effective to buy one $5 cutting disc (I think designed for concrete) which finished the job by itself.
Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972