Windlass Installation for Ericson 32-III

clohman

Member II
I read the previous threads about installations for the 38's with shallow anchor lockers, and Tom Metzger's nice install on his 34. Any help on the following would be appreciated:

My 32 has a very deep anchor locker - enough for 30' chain, 300' nylon, 1 danforth and a 5 gallon diesel can. My orthopedic surgeon has convinced my wife that I need to install a windlass (having a sailor for a doctor is a good thing).

My mounting choices seem to be Tom Metzger's approach of installing a vertical windlass just aft of the locker, protruding into the v-berth, or reinforcing the locker wall and mounting a horizontal unit inside the locker on the aft wall. The "inside the locker option" would require a roller to get the rhode over the forward edge - requiring that the locker hatch be secured in the open position during the use of the windlass. The angle for this option concerns me in that the rhode coming slightly downward into the locker would be less than a 90 degree angle around the gypsy. Mounting a vertical windlass on the locker hatch isn't an option in this case - too flimsy.

I also am thinking of mounting a battery forward, rather than running 000 cable the full length of the boat.

Thanks for any input...
 
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Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
My reaction is that you are "over anchored". I have the same boat and use a Spade A80 (16 lbs) (replacing the FX-11 used by the prior owner) or a Fortress FX-23 (15 lbs) with 15 feet of chain and 150 of line (the FX-11 and the Spade fit in the anchor locker; the FX-23 does not - I keep it disassembled). Both are very easy to haul in. I have anchored my boat in 25 knots of shifting wind using the Fortress FX-11 and had no problem. If you install all the equipment you are talking about, you will have a very heavy bow.
 
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Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
Chip - There is no such thing as "over anchored", only people who haven't yet been in a situation where they needed more anchor. Lose the first anchor and then what? I carry more chain than I think I need, but many people carry all chain. If you day sail you probably don't need much ground tackle, however if you spend time on the hook it is hard to have too much.

I doubt that you would need 3/0 wire to power your windless. I used #2 and have good voltage. Most people never use the windlass without the engine, so good source voltage is always available.
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
wire size matters

I have a 12v 70amp Simpson Lawrence that I haven't installed yet. The instructions call for only a 1 AWG for 65 foot round trip wire length. Though pricey for the cable I much prefer that to dropping another battery forward.

As far as ground tackle, I keep a Fortress forward and CQR in the cockpit locker for the heavy conditions that Tom suggests. I also have an extra 250' of rode aft which came in handy recently when I needed to kedge out of a cove into the wind.

I heard of a windlass installation where the windlass and foredeck were reinforced with a stainless rod that ran thru the bilge to the keel bolts.

Tom Metzger said:
Chip - There is no such thing as "over anchored", only people who haven't yet been in a situation where they needed more anchor. Lose the first anchor and then what? I carry more chain than I think I need, but many people carry all chain. If you day sail you probably don't need much ground tackle, however if you spend time on the hook it is hard to have too much.

I doubt that you would need 3/0 wire to power your windless. I used #2 and have good voltage. Most people never use the windlass without the engine, so good source voltage is always available.
 
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Bolo

Member III
Over anchored?

Chip,

I'm a new owner of a 32-3 and am following this string with great interest because of the size of my anchor. During the purchase process my surveyor recommended a 35 lb. plough anchor. He said that the anchor on the boat was too small. I told him that I was planning on putting a Danforth on the boat and he scoffed at the suggestion! Why? He told me that it is a prudent practice to "size up" from whatever is suggested as the right size anchor for a boat. He also liked a plough over a Danforth because, according to him, it's the type of anchor that is used to keep oilrigs in place. This guy has years of experiance behind him and is very trusted in my area.

So I went out and purchased a 33 lb. plough anchor (got it on ebay) and yes, it's a big mother! But I feel better with having it aboard along with the other two small anchors that came with the boat.

Our previous boat, a Hunter 285, (which we still have and is on sale in Annapolis) has a new Danforth anchor on it "properly" sized for the boat. One day we were caught in a micro burst at anchor in Fairly Creek. (A nice anchorage on the Chesapeake Bay.) The wind swing us around and it was so strong that we were heeled (at anchor) about 15 degrees! Outside it was a complete white out for about fifteen minutes. What we didn't know till later was that our Danforth had flipped over because of the wind shift and the flukes jammed and didn't re-set because a rock (the size of my fist) had lodged itself between the flukes. We almost ended up being beach but noticed the shoreline getting closer and were able to get on deck, start the engine and back away from the beach. I'm hoping that a plough anchor will handle a situation like this better.

The surveyor also suggested getting a windlass installed on deck. His suggestion was to place it just behind the anchor locker. If you're ever in the Annapolis area drop me a line and we'll try and meet up!

:egrin:
Bolo
32-3
Vesper
Annapolis, MD.
 

Geoff Johnson

Fellow Ericson Owner
It's no surprise that there are more opinions than there are anchors (e.g. I wasn't aware of any oil rigs in Maryland; the claim about oil rigs comes from their (actually it was the claw, not the CQR) use in the North Sea - if you want to know what some people think of a plow anchor in mud just read some of the reviews on the West Marine site). If you want a plow, look at the Spade - at least it has a concave holding surface, not a shape that was originally designed to move through dirt. Anyway, I can't see putting a windlass on a 32 foot boat unless you have a back problem, particularly one that is fast like a 32-3. I try to keep weight off my boat (I don't fill the forward water tank for example) and it still floats down to the design water line. Chacun a son gout. One other point - I keep my boat on a mooring which makes having an achor hanging off the bow a bad idea as it can cut the mooring lines in rough conditions.

PS Since Tom crapped on my head, by "over anchored" I suppose I was referring to weight (which does not necessarily translate into holding power). The two aluminum anchors I have on my boat have serious holding power (see the Practical Sailor reviews) and cover a variety of anchoring conditions but are easy to hoist about with one arm.
 
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Chris Miller

Sustaining Member
anchors...

We use a CQR 35 in the ches bay and it sticks like glue in that mud... the only issue we ever had was when we didn't realize we were in a sandy bottom until the CQR started dragging immediately, and didn't feel like messing with the danforth we keep on board... so we went and got a slip at the local marina.
I guess anchors are like opinions?
 

Tom Metzger

Sustaining Partner
I don't really understand

For the last five thousand years man has been trying to come up with a shape that could be easily pulled through the ground to lighten the work of feeding himself. Someone came up with the idea that this same shape would be ideal for a boat anchor. To prove how gullible boaters, are he charged an unconscionable amount of money for this anchor, and people bought it and raved about it.

My only personal experience with plow anchors was with the 25# CQR that came with my boat. I could plow the straightest furrows...

I don't really understand... :confused:
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
keep that plow handy...

I was crew on a Nauticat 32 in Virginia on the Chesapeake last June. We quickly discovered on the west side rivers that the three Danforth type anchors weren't worth a damn on pebble and oyster shell bottom. The locals said to "just use a plow". The shells jam in the hinge and then it can't dig in.

The Danforth type (Fortress included) can jam with anything of substance in the middle of the flukes. We once had a Fortress drag in Harness creek mud. When we retrieved it, a glass beer bottle was jammed with the neck end deep between the flukes and the shaft. I had to use a hammer to smash it out ! A plow would have pushed it to the side.

I've got a smaller Fortress from our last boat that I'm going to add to the on board inventory so I'll have two Fortresses and a CQR. We do enough crusing that I'm sure the day will come.

Tom Metzger said:
For the last five thousand years man has been trying to come up with a shape that could be easily pulled through the ground to lighten the work of feeding himself. Someone came up with the idea that this same shape would be ideal for a boat anchor. To prove how gullible boaters, are he charged an unconscionable amount of money for this anchor, and people bought it and raved about it.

My only personal experience with plow anchors was with the 25# CQR that came with my boat. I could plow the straightest furrows...

I don't really understand... :confused:
 

Bolo

Member III
Right tool for the right job

My father, who is a retired machinist, is always fond of telling me to "use the right tool for the right job." I think the same applies to anchors. As written in a previous posting, "I wasn't aware of any oil rigs in Maryland." This was in response to my surveyor’s comments about oilrigs using plow, or actually Bruce type anchors. Point is, there are different kinds of bottoms and you need the right anchor for the right job. I took a look at some of the reviews on the West Marine site on plow anchors, as recommended, and found good and bad reviews from sailors who have used them in the Chesapeake. Just as I've been finding some poor reviews on other types of anchors like the Danforth which has a very big weakness if something happens to jam the flukes.

I have a plow, danforth and Bruce anchors aboard and I ready to use whichever one the bottom calls for to properly hold the boat in place. My father was right. Having the right tool for the right job is the key.

Bolo
32-3
Vesper
:p
 

pick

Member II
Our boat came with a Fortress #11 which seems to work well but last summer we took our 32-3 for an eight week trip and I felt I needed something more. I settled on a 22# delta after reading several reviews. See this one, http://www.multihullsmag.com/magazine/articles/delta.htm

I would like to have a larger one but lack of a windless and a weak back seemed to indicate that this was a good compromise. It is "rated" for sailboats up to 41 feet as I recall.

We didn't have any problems but then we didn't have any really high winds to put it to a "real" test

Mike Pick
Magic E32-3
 

Shadowfax

Member III
I agree with a good part of this thread. The anchor should fit the bottom conditions. In the Chesapeake, for me, that means a Bruce. I use a 33# and have NEVER had a problem with my E34. A friend of mine in a 38.8 Bristol, last week retired his CQR for a Bruce. I have never liked Danforth for the reasons stated above, but whatever floats your boat,or in this case, holds it to the bottom.
 

ted_reshetiloff

Contributing Partner
I have had the problems related toteh danforth of not resetting, but only 2 times in a lot of cruising. I run a 35 lb CQR now and its never let me down. Chris you found a sand bottom on the Chesapeake? WOW! I carry a backup danforth in the cockpit locker. I have been curious about the bruce or delta style but I'm saving for new sails before I get more ground tacke.:egrin:

As to over anchored I am with the better safe than sorry crew, but I find anchorages so crowded these days its often hard to get the swinging room for the 7:1 scope my father always recommended. Thats with 35' of chain and the rest nylon. This is the reason I would like to go all chain. I have heard you can get adequate holding power on 3:1. Comments? Flames?
 

Mindscape

Member III
Anchors in the anchor locker

Geoff, or anyone else that keeps thier anchor in the anchor locker. Do you some how secure the anchor in the locker or is it loose in the anchor locker. I've got a bruce that I'd like to leave in the locker but I'm concerned about it bouncing around loose in the locker in heavy weather. Just to add to the discussion I carry a bruce and a fx-23. I've been concerned about securing it somehow to the walls of the locker without some kind of reinforcement to the walls of the locker.
As always - thanks for the feedback
 

wurzner

Member III
Only Chain?

Wow, a second post in 2 days where I may really get flamed. The only issue with all chain (in this area at least) is you don't swing at all or very little. With the tide exchanges being in the ~13 foot range, other boats around you are going to move since very view carry only chain. I guess it is incumbent upon the person setting the hook to determine what the folks around them are using, but all chain appears to be the exception. Also, you can get away with less scope, but in this area of the PNW, all chain would mean 200 feet of chain minimum if going all chain to allow access to sufficient moorages with 5:1 scope. While all chain is certainly the best option for holding power and ultimately safety, I have 50 feet and then 200 feet of line. If it is really nasty, I hang a second anchor at the end of the chain on a second line to keep the chain parallel to the bottom as much as practical. The point about needing various anchors can not be given sufficient merit. Using one anchor is like saying all vehicles should use the same type of tires, whether 4x4, driving in snow or ice, or on the track. I carry 3 anchors on board when cruising, 1 hingled plow (45lb) and 2 fluke (40 lb and 22 lb). The 22 is a quick lunch hook or the 2nd anchor I referred to above.
shaun
S/V Sorcerer
E38-200
Everett, Wa
 

CaptnNero

Accelerant
Captn Fatty Goodlander

Ok you tackle-heads in this thread. If you haven't seen it take a look at Cap'n Fatty Goodlander's anchoring in a storm article in the latest issue of Cruising World. It's quite a story.
 
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Captron

Member III
I guess I'll add my two-cents worth here about anchoring. I could write a book on this subject so this'll likely get longish.

My everyday anchor on our E38 Kismet is a 33lb Bruce on 100ft of G4 chain and 200 ft of 5/8 inch nylon spliced to the chain. We carry a 22lb Danforth in the anchor well with 50 ft of BBB chain and 150ft of 1/2 inch nylon ... and we carry a Fortress FX37 in the lazarette with it's own rode and chain as a storm anchor.

We're in the process of planning a windlass installation because my wife can't armstrong the anchors and my back is getting to the point where I won't be able to much longer. When we get the windlass, I want to upgrade the primary anchor to the next size up ...

Here's my experience ... take it FWIW ...

The Bruce has never lets us down in three years of extended cruising from the Chesapeake to the Turks and Caicos islands ... for the past two years we have left Florida in November and come back in May and seldom use marinas ... that means we're anchored out every night just about.

We deploy two anchors very infequently ... why use two when one will do? Our Bruce, once properly set, never pulls out. It just screws itself into the bottom as the wind or current swings us about. This experience is supported by testing done by Practical Sailor ... they found that changes in pull direction did not pull out their test Bruce or their test Fortress ... interesting since they're two different types ... The 22lb Danforth is used if we need a Bahamian moor type rig. By the way when we anchor, we almost always let out all of the chain plus about 25ft of nylon ... unless the water depth demands more scope. Chain in the locker can't help hold the boat.

In 2004 we anchored Kismet out in Clearwater Bay to ride out hurricane Frances. The forecast was for a Category 2 storm and a 14foot tidal surge. We got the wind, not sure of the tidal surge but maybe we got 10ft at high tide.

We anchored Kismet in about 10ft of water (MLW). We set up the big FX37 Fortress anchor on a brand new 5/8 nylon rode with 100ft of 5/16ths G4 chain. The rode is spliced to the chain and we attached the anchor without a swivel ... just a big stainless steel shackle. We chose this rig because all of the elements, rode, chain, and shackle have about the same breaking strength ... 12,000lbs plus or minus a little.

We set the anchor and let out all of the chain and all 200 ft of nylon. Then we doubled the chafing gear (we used that canvas fire hose type material and covered that with a commercially available Velcro attached cover made of slick material like heavy dacron sail cloth) and left the boat. The anchor line was led over the bow roller and secured to a deck cleat in the normal fashion. The chafing gear rode over the bow roller. This gear held up fine. The bow roller is solid bronze and supported by a 1/2inch stainless steel axle bolt between heavy stainless steel cheek plates that are incorporated into the forestay chain plate. It extends by very little in front of the stem of the boat. It is secured to the boat with a half dozen 1/2" through bolts (original Ericson equipment I think) and a heavy stainless steel strap running down the forepeak, also through bolted.

We also took pains to make sure we had a very firm set by backing down on the anchor as hard as we could. The bottom here is fairly firm sand with a thin layer of mud on top of it. Anchors come up with this dense sandy mud on them.

The anchoring gear held up fine... the boat stayed put. The problem came from wave action. The fetch built up a high, short chop and the boat sat out there sustaining 3 days of 50k plus winds. The surging action of the boat on the rode ended up breaking the steering cable where it attaches to the drive chain. That was the only damage.

I love my Bruce, love the Fortress ... don't buy a knock off. Look at serious cruising boats if you want to know what anchors work. Mostly you will see plow type anchors as primary anchors. Bruce, CQR and Delta are the three you see the most. Danforth types including Fortress are usually secondary anchors. Many cruisers carry a third type like a Luke, Navy or some other patent anchor.

Like someone else said, horses for courses ... anchors for ground types... the only time we've ever had our Bruce refuse to set was in the Bahamas in an area of dense grass ... we avoid such anchorages and always try to put the Bruce down in a sandy patch.

Anchoring in the Little Wicomico River in the Chesapeake last year with a friend's 35lb Delta (on a Gemini Catamaran) we couldn't get the Delta to set but when we tried his 22lb Danforth, it set first time ... go figure?

We rarely use two anchors ... they tend to foul the rodes and each other. I always use a kellet when setting two anchors to keep the rodes together and on the bottom so they won't wrap the keel ... even so I've had a rode foul the keel and cut a notch in the trailng edge of the keel.

I have written an article about our hurricane experiences, Kismet has now survived 5 hurricanes since we bought her in 2003. Should be published in Southwinds soon ...

Capt Ron
E-38 Kismet
 

Shadowfax

Member III
As noted in an earlier post we carry a 33# Bruce, with a 22# Bruce as a back up. We have 12 feet of chain and 250 feet of line to complete the anchor rode. I don't believe my 34 could handle much more weight at the bow and we do not have the vee berth water tank. The idea behind the short amount of chain is that it helps the anchor set and resists evil things on the bottom that eat nylon line. Don't get me wrong, chain is a good thing, but if you are in the Chesapeake, where there are few rocks and even fewer coral reefs, I don’t think it necessary. This goes to the anchor fits the conditions theory. If you sail the Islands or some other location that can eat nylon anchor rode then I’d have chain and make adjustments for the chain.

When I first got our boat the bitter end of the anchor rode was loose. After about 2 years I thought that attaching it to something, as the kids where liable to do anything at that age, was a good idea. I bought a stout U bolt and set it into the bottom of the anchor locker. About a month later we where in the Choptank River and we where hit with the worst storm line I’ve ever been in. The engine was over heating, so we let go the anchor in about 45 feet of water, which is deep for the Bay. Before my wife could get a handle on the line it had run out completely and the only think separating us from I don’t know what, was the U bolt, so, do install a U bolt, or its equal.
 

SeaDog

Member II
I added a Quick 500 horizontal windlass to my 1978 E32 three years ago and am very pleased with it's operation. I use a 33lb Bruce with 70' of hightest quarter inch chain backed up by 430' of 1/2 inch nylon. Yes, that's a lot of rode but I often anchor in 80' of water. My stern anchor is a 22 lb Danforth with 30' of hightest quarter inch chain and 300' of 1/2 inch nylon.

Why a windlass? Well, let's just say that a couple of my crew (ladies) threatened bodily harm after I made them pull up and reset the anchors two times in Little Fisherman's Cove at Catalina Island. Now, no one complains as we gunkhole, occasionally dropping the hook for lunch or a quick snorkel.

Kirby
Uff Da, E32, Alamitos Bay, California
 
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nquigley

Member III
I read the previous threads about installations for the 38's with shallow anchor lockers, and Tom Metzger's nice install on his 34. Any help on the following would be appreciated:
My 32 has a very deep anchor locker - enough for 30' chain, 300' nylon, 1 danforth and a 5 gallon diesel can. My orthopedic surgeon has convinced my wife that I need to install a windlass (having a sailor for a doctor is a good thing).
My mounting choices seem to be Tom Metzger's approach of installing a vertical windlass just aft of the locker, protruding into the v-berth, or reinforcing the locker wall and mounting a horizontal unit inside the locker on the aft wall. The "inside the locker option" would require a roller to get the rhode over the forward edge - requiring that the locker hatch be secured in the open position during the use of the windlass. The angle for this option concerns me in that the rhode coming slightly downward into the locker would be less than a 90 degree angle around the gypsy. Mounting a vertical windlass on the locker hatch isn't an option in this case - too flimsy.
I also am thinking of mounting a battery forward, rather than running 000 cable the full length of the boat.
Thanks for any input...
Your thread got hijacked by the inevitable discussion about pros and cons of various anchoring strategies.
Did you install a windlass?
It's on my near-term (this year) to-do list, so I'm gathering ideas about my options on a 32-3.
I'm not certain, but I think it may be best to be mounted just aft of the anchor locker, and engineered to somehow drop the chain down a hawsepipe through the forward end of the V-berth into the forward bilge - ideally aft of the chain locker, so that space can remain intact. But, then the chain would prevent the locker from being opened, unless there's some sort of chain-lock just forward of the locker's door, so one can slacken the aft part of the chain and lead it to the side if you need access to the locker while at anchor.
Any advice you can give will be much appreciated - especially any photos of a 32-3 windlass install
 
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