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Windward Sheeting traveler

K2MSmith

Member III
New traveler lines today ( in bold color ) .

This boat is new to me and I was trying to figure out why this nifty traveler was working fine when I was sailing but not releasing in the slip :) ok I got it ... :) The old lines needed to be replaced anyway.
 

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Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
Now that is a racy cockpit. Makes me want to call out "Overlap? Sir, you have no overlap!"

Which I still do, but nowadays only in my sleep.
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
With refined dialog like that, we can see why you are not posting that comment on Sailing Anarchy...!
:rolleyes:
 

K2MSmith

Member III
With refined dialog like that, we can see why you are not posting that comment on Sailing Anarchy...!
:rolleyes:
I’m sure I would have received some interesting responses. The joke is on me for misunderstanding how this traveler car is supposed to work :) how ingenious! The PO put a lot of tricky stuff on this boat. The car was looking a little salty so I thought i would just but another one rather than replace the parts until I saw the price. Wow - and with the 4-1 purchase option . ‘Mmm best I take care of it .
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Apropos of Whatever, when I used to crew on an E-33RH, I really preferred to drive when possible... that main was suitably sized for a 40 footer... and took both work and finesse to adjust properly. It's a big 'wing' and really moves the boat! We had an expert trimmer for the main, and a good foredeck guy, so I ran winches mostly, and some down wind driving....

Loved that fractional rig -- spinnaker was not so large/tall as to steal the boat away from the driver (!). :)
Driving with the chute in 18 to 20 true was Big Fun. We ran "ran off and hid" from a C&C 35-3 that was rounding up photogenically in the big air. More than once.
:egrin:
 
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steven

Member III
well I don't see how this is supposed to work no matter how you thread the line(s). And considering the load I'm not sure I would run it through blocks attached to cockpit side- is that typically done on the 33RH ?

My wife pointed out that once I shouted "Sta'bd" at a four way stop sign.
 

K2MSmith

Member III
This boat is much better than I am ! Even when sailed poorly with just the main up , I can get 6 knots . The wind here of course helps .
i have new lines all whipped and ready to install the reefs (i only have reef 1 ) , but there has not been a windless morning where I can put the main up in the slip, so I may have just take her out into the bay and find a spot where I can troll into the wind for a while while I set it up out there. I think I have figured out a way to pre-snake the the lines through the boom first. Maybe I will “volunteer” my daughter to help .
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
My guess is that the traveler leads are set for crew position. And that the sheet block is double--one line for gross control and the other for fine control of the main, as we had on the Soling. Or maybe I am out of touch....
 

K2MSmith

Member III
My guess is that the traveler leads are set for crew position. And that the sheet block is double--one line for gross control and the other for fine control of the main, as we had on the Soling. Or maybe I am out of touch....
Yes , that is exactly how it is setup , but noticed that when I “relaced” the traveler lines, it seemed like the old line may have been installed on the wrong side of the pulley on the car . When I changed it, the spacing/clearance looked better . I found a harken manual and sure enough it was wrong . I don’t think it would have made a big difference functionally other then chafing the line .
 

K2MSmith

Member III
well I don't see how this is supposed to work no matter how you thread the line(s). And considering the load I'm not sure I would run it through blocks attached to cockpit side- is that typically done on the 33RH ?

My wife pointed out that once I shouted "Sta'bd" at a four way stop sign.
I’m not 100% sure what the blocks in the cockpit are for :) unless you want to adjust the traveler from the opposite side of the cockpit from the helmsman (?) . I don’t use them since the traveler car is taking the load . The traveler car has a sliding mechanism that is actuated by sheet pressure to release the leeward cams.
 
On our E-32 we installed the Harken, replacing the original curved track. Wow what an improvement! No more getting down on the low side and yanking on the block to get it move. Fine adjustment became easy, making frequent tacking close to the wind exciting, keeping crew weight on the high side. This setup is like mine (per Harken recommendations).
 

Keith Parcells

Sustaining Member
I’m not 100% sure what the blocks in the cockpit are for :) unless you want to adjust the traveler from the opposite side of the cockpit from the helmsman (?) . I don’t use them since the traveler car is taking the load . The traveler car has a sliding mechanism that is actuated by sheet pressure to release the leeward cams.
I am coming very, very late to this conversation, so, sorry for that. Maybe I can shed a bit of ligh on the discussion, though.

the windward sheeting traveler looks great. I am jealous and would love to have one. But I still have a stock or slightly modified factory E33 RH setup. It is helpful to look at the excellent Harken diagrams of various travelers to get more understanding of the system, too. See this link:


scroll down to 3:1 Remote cleat. That is basically the design of the stock, factory system, although they used Schaeffer hardware. The lines are led slightly differently from your setup, though Kevin. The two ends are not separated but port and starboard are actually one continuous line which loops back to the opposite side and merely hangs below the traveler in the cockpit. This is good to have IMHO. This system, overall, does not lend itself well to short handed sailing and is certainly NOT good for single handing.


So, the Harken illustration describes the purpose of the remote cleat, “when the crew sits above the traveler, lead control lines up the cockpit sides to a convenient location on the coaming.” So that design was intended for crew to control the traveler and by using the single, continuous traveler line, crew perched on the upwind coaming could flick the line upward to release it from the opposite, leeward side jamb cleat, and could then pull the traveler up to windward. In theory, at least. However 3:1 is much too little purchase to do that with the big main, though. I modified mine to add purchase.....4:1 or is it 5:1. It’s quite a bit better at pulling the traveler “uphill,” but it is not near as good as your windward sheet system, I am sure!

Now look back at the Harken diagrams and scroll up to the windward sheet traveler. It is a self contained system and the end cleats are included. Therefore, by leading your lines up through the old factory remote cleats, you are defeating and negating some of the functionality of the windward sheeting system. I am not sure if that is being done on your system because the photo doesn’t quite stretch that far out. It might be wise for you to consult with the excellent Harken support staff about your system to determine if it is indeed set up right.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Moderator
Blogs Author
Also, I believe in trying one size smaller control line than recommended. There's no winch involved with our travelers, and if the smaller line is acceptable in the hand it goes through the blocks easier. Worth an experiment before ordering new line. I'm pleased with 5/16ths on the upgraded original Ronstan gear for the E381.

20089 (1).jpg...versus...2 .jpg
 

K2MSmith

Member III
I am coming very, very late to this conversation, so, sorry for that. Maybe I can shed a bit of ligh on the discussion, though.

the windward sheeting traveler looks great. I am jealous and would love to have one. But I still have a stock or slightly modified factory E33 RH setup. It is helpful to look at the excellent Harken diagrams of various travelers to get more understanding of the system, too. See this link:


scroll down to 3:1 Remote cleat. That is basically the design of the stock, factory system, although they used Schaeffer hardware. The lines are led slightly differently from your setup, though Kevin. The two ends are not separated but port and starboard are actually one continuous line which loops back to the opposite side and merely hangs below the traveler in the cockpit. This is good to have IMHO. This system, overall, does not lend itself well to short handed sailing and is certainly NOT good for single handing.


So, the Harken illustration describes the purpose of the remote cleat, “when the crew sits above the traveler, lead control lines up the cockpit sides to a convenient location on the coaming.” So that design was intended for crew to control the traveler and by using the single, continuous traveler line, crew perched on the upwind coaming could flick the line upward to release it from the opposite, leeward side jamb cleat, and could then pull the traveler up to windward. In theory, at least. However 3:1 is much too little purchase to do that with the big main, though. I modified mine to add purchase.....4:1 or is it 5:1. It’s quite a bit better at pulling the traveler “uphill,” but it is not near as good as your windward sheet system, I am sure!

Now look back at the Harken diagrams and scroll up to the windward sheet traveler. It is a self contained system and the end cleats are included. Therefore, by leading your lines up through the old factory remote cleats, you are defeating and negating some of the functionality of the windward sheeting system. I am not sure if that is being done on your system because the photo doesn’t quite stretch that far out. It might be wise for you to consult with the excellent Harken support staff about your system to determine if it is indeed set up right.
I am enjoying using the WS traveler. A rigger who has been helping me with some setup issues suggested that the extra pulley blocks/cam cleats are not necessary with the WS traveler system, so we can remove them and fill the holes. So that’s what we are going to do ! Only it’s a bit down on my list right now. The cam cleat on the mast (to temporarily hold the main halyard) and retractable lazy jacks are next thing I’ll probably do. Replacing the halyard winch with a harken self-tailing winch and new clutches ( and larger size winch )because the original one is undersized) are next. Getting the zippers to work on the interior headliner is holding up the process but I think I can fix some of them (per some blogs posted on this site).
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I am enjoying using the WS traveler. A rigger who has been helping me with some setup issues suggested that the extra pulley blocks/cam cleats are not necessary with the WS traveler system, so we can remove them and fill the holes. So that’s what we are going to do ! Only it’s a bit down on my list right now. The cam cleat on the mast (to temporarily hold the main halyard) and retractable lazy jacks are next thing I’ll probably do. Replacing the halyard winch with a harken self-tailing winch and new clutches ( and larger size winch )because the original one is undersized) are next. Getting the zippers to work on the interior headliner is holding up the process but I think I can fix some of them (per some blogs posted on this site).
If past is prolog, it's only a few months until the next annual WM 2-for-1 Lewmar winch sale...... which is how I justified my budget for our housetop winches to upgrade to 40ST models. Awesome upgrade, if I do say so.
I have a show-n-tell blog entry here.
 

K2MSmith

Member III
I will
If past is prolog, it's only a few months until the next annual WM 2-for-1 Lewmar winch sale...... which is how I justified my budget for our housetop winches to upgrade to 40ST models. Awesome upgrade, if I do say so.
I have a show-n-tell blog entry here.
I will definitely check that out . Hoisting the main is possible single hand but not easy because of the juggling of a weak 3” non self tailing winch with slipping clutch on deck near mast . I can hoist the sail without a winch , thanks to the new mast track) but things get difficult after that to tighten or put in a reef . Last time I checked the harken chart , I needed a Harken 40 or equivalent for my size main ( 300 sq ft) . They retail about 1k I believe .
 
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