Wrong Way Rudder [Steering Cables Correction]

[Bolo]

I just had a fair amount of repairs done to my E32-3 by the marina. I’ve posted something about this on another thread which I will update but this new problem deserves its own separate posting. So after a lot of work, including removing and repairing the rudder, re-packing the rudder gland, bottom paint, etc. the boat was launched. Unfortunately I was not able to be present for it but was able to make it down today, a Saturday, to check things out and finally go for a sail after the boat was up on the hard for month.

Pulling out of my slip I turn to starboard to head out but instead the boat made a sharp turn to port! I was halfway out of the slip before I recovered and fighting a strong wind on my starboard beam to boot. We were able to pull the boat back into the slip using the outermost dock lines and then applying a little bit of reverse. I was cautious with that because I had no idea where the boat was going to go.

First thing I check was the steering gear below deck. I did that before even attempting going out and nothing look amiss but then with my first mate at the helm, when she turned the wheel to port the rudder turned to starboard and vice versa! WTF!? Back at the helm, with the boat still tied up, I restarted the engine and turned the wheel hard over to starboard, right to the stop. I put the boat in forward gear and gave the engine a quick burst. Instead of a thrust in the water to starboard as expected, it was on the port side. Amazing. Then looking down I noticed that the fluid in the compass was half gone. Last year I had the compass rebuilt ($400) and then the idea came to me that the steering problem was inside the binnacle and that the mechanic was in there and in the process damaged my compass.

Now, I could open the binnacle up and take a look but I’m not and for two good reasons. One, I’m paying good money for good work and that wasn’t done. Two, I don’t have a reference as to how things should look in side the binnacle at the steering chains and sprockets. Maybe someone could send my a photo of what it should look like in there and maybe even give me a clue as to the problem of my wacky steering.

Signed

”Rudderless”

 

[Christian Williams]

If steering is reversed, it is because the cables inside the binnacle were installed incorrectly.

If your quadrant (radial) is aft of the rudder post, they have to be crossed. Easy to screw up, easy to fix.

For company, see end of https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/pedestal-rebuild.119/

To see diagram of crossed cables, download : https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/resources/merriman-binnacle-catalog.187/

 

[peaman]

This sounds like a nightmare, especially since you are not always close to your boat. I sincerely hope you resolve this quickly.

The reverse steering should be very easy to show that someone screwed up. Let's not allow "benefit of doubt": if the steering gear was disconnected, a mistake could be made in re-connection, but checking one's work would readily show a deficiency if steering has been reversed. There is no excuse for leaving the problem for the customer to discover as you did. The image in this post should match what you have as far as steering cable arrangement as viewed from the port side. While the image shows only a small part of the system, it is clear that feeding wire to the port-side sheave will result in right rudder, so the steering cables must be crossed within the steering column.

The matter of the compass is harder to figure. I'm not convinced that dropping and reinstalling the rudder would have necessitated removal of the compass, but even if it did, the compass should be easily removed and replaced without affecting the fluid level.

I would want to ask what exactly was done, in detail, and what difficulties might have been encountered. Based on my experience in similar situations, you won't get any traction with the compass issue, but I hope I'm wrong on that.

 

[Loren Beach]

I am puzzled that the cables in the pedestal and the compass were involved in this. For these boats, strictly IMHO, the cable clamps on the quadrant are removed to loosen the quadrant, and then the bolts that hold it on are removed so the rudder shaft can drop. (I might be in error, but our boats are very similar. More details will be helpful, when and if...

Edit: some photos of our boat's quadrant in this thread, reply 2. https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/quadrant-stop-on-yacht-specialties-pedestal.3473/

 

[Kenneth K]

When I had the yard remove my rudder, I crawled back in the stern after hours and cleaned all the crud i could get off the quadrant. I also changed out the bronze bearings on the steering sheaves. Maybe I left things not as I found them.....? When I talked to the yard mechanic a few days later, he (politely) yelled at me because the first time they hooked up the steering (after re-installing the rudder), the controls worked backwards. They had to dis-assemble the quadrant and re-run the cables correctly (which, I believe means crossed). I don't know if it was my fault or theirs, but they caught the mistake before splashing the boat.

There would have been no reason to remove the compass or work in the quadrant unless maybe there was a problem with the steering chain. Your compass problem is likely un-related. You can purchase Ritchie compass fluid and refill the chamber yourself. If the diaphragm is punctured, you're in for an expensive rebuild (if they have the parts), but if if's just the fill-port screw that's loose, maybe you can fix it. Or see if the repair shop will fix it under warranty for the $400 they charged you.

 

[Bolo]

Ok, I just found this diagram of a YS binnacle, which is what I have, from an older post by Christian Williams. I can see that the chain simply goes over the sprocket and the cables (that are attached to the sprocket ends) go down to the steering pulleys below deck. It’s as simple as that and my guess is that the yard has the cables crossed over inside the binnacle before they reach the pulleys which would cause the rudder to move in the opposite direction. Anyone agree with that?

If steering is reversed, it is because the cables inside the binnacle were installed incorrectly.

If your quadrant (radial) is aft of the rudder post, they have to be crossed. Easy to screw up, easy to fix.

For company, see end of https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/pedestal-rebuild.119/

To see diagram of crossed cables, download : https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/resources/merriman-binnacle-catalog.187/

Thanks Christian, I see that now and undoubtedly the cables SHOULD BE CROSSED because the connections the to quadrant are aft of the rudder post. The diagram I found first didn’t take that into account although both it and the one that shows the cables crossed inside the binnacle are from the same document it seems. Looking at the cables below deck and how they are attached gives you no clue as to how they are arranged inside the binnacle so I can see that it’s easy to screw up if someone is not aware that the connection point on the quadrant requires that the cables be crossed. It was that way before the rudder repairs were done, that’s for sure, so I’m more convinced that the mechanic took the top sections off of the binnacle including the compass (which he may have man handled) to access the cables. I’m here at the marina till Monday afternoon and I’m sure the conversation with the service manager will be an “interesting” one.

 

[Loren Beach]

Best of luck, Bob! In my experience over the decades, the better shops and yards are always willing to correct their mistakes. One of my favorite ship wrights actually seems kind of exasperated at himself (!) over an error. But then, he does almost zero advertising and referrals are his source of work, too.

 

[Bolo]

Best of luck, Bob! In my experience over the decades, the better shops and yards are always willing to correct their mistakes. One of my favorite ship wrights actually seems kind of exasperated at himself (!) over an error. But then, he does almost zero advertising and referrals are his source of work, too.

Thanks. Because of other commitments, distance, inexperience with a few few boat repairs (chain and cable steering being one of them) and my age I can’t do some of the repairs and maintenance myself and am force to rely on the “pros”. But that’s it, isn’t it? They’re suppose to be pros and should know better. In about two hours I educated myself, thanks mostly to the folks and information on this web site (Thanks Christian!) with the important details about chain and cable steering in sailboats. If I were doing this job by myself it would have taken much long to do, compare to a pro, but I’m sure it would have been done right because I would had checked to see if the rudder was operating properly!

This is all part of a series of repairs that I’ve have written about on another post concerning cracks in the hull near the rudder post which I’ll be adding to after everything, including getting the invoices, is done. I remember growing up in the 60‘s, a turbulent time to be sure, when the idea of “question everything” was often said. Those were for political reasons back then (which I’m never going to get into on this site) but the same idea should be used for boat repair (by others), medical care, home improvement (again by others)…and I could go on with a list a mile long but you get the idea. I‘ll post again, maybe tomorrow, on what the yard here says. As they say, stay tuned.

 

[Kenneth K]

It’s as simple as that and my guess is that the yard has the cables crossed over inside the binnacle before they reach the pulleys which would cause the rudder to move in the opposite direction. Anyone agree with that?

No, that doesn't pass the test with me. Rule number one with yard work is that they never do anything more than they absolutely have to do.

When they dropped your rudder, all they had to do was loosen the steering cable and remove the quadrant. There was no reason for them to address any part of the steering cable that rises above the under-deck area. It would have been WAY more work for them to pull the entire length of the steering cable up through the cockpit pass-through holes to cross/uncross the cables inside the pinnacle--none of which is required to drop the rudder. Makes no sense.

It was that way before the rudder repairs were done, that’s for sure, so I’m more convinced that the mechanic took the top sections off of the binnacle including the compass (which he may have man handled) to access the cables.

I'd maybe keep gathering my facts before chewing out the mechanic about the compass. Again, there would be no reason for them to work inside the pinnacle when dropping your rudder.

 

[Christian Williams]

The fix is just to disconnect the cables, cross them, and reattach. No need to open up or remove the binnacle.

Your experience raises the question, since you weren't there for the launch, of how the yard returned your boat to the slip. If they did, the helmsman was very adaptable not to notice the reversed steering.

The compass has a rubber diaphragm that holds the fluid. The diaphragm allows the fluid to expand and contract by temperature. A bubble in a compass is the result of a worn-out diaphragm. it is easy to puncture the diaphragm in removing the compass.

E381 - Ritchie Compass Diaphragm Replacement

Ritchie Compass Diaphragm Replacement

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Kenneth K]

Your experience raises the question, since you weren't there for the launch, of how the yard returned your boat to the slip. If they did, the helmsman was very adaptable not to notice the reversed steering.

I had that thought too, but I think yards would rather tow a boat to move it rather than starting the motor. Running the motor leaves them responsible for the inlet/outlet/fuel valves all being in the proper position.

 

[Dave G.]

Man on sofa ; Wow, if you can't get quality work done in Annapolis...well we're really in trouble.

 

[Bolo]

The fix is just to disconnect the cables, cross them, and reattach. No need to open up or remove the binnacle.

Your experience raises the question, since you weren't there for the launch, of how the yard returned your boat to the slip. If they did, the helmsman was very adaptable not to notice the reversed steering.

The compass has a rubber diaphragm that holds the fluid. The diaphragm allows the fluid to expand and contract by temperature. A bubble in a compass is the result of a worn-out diaphragm. it is easy to puncture the diaphragm in removing the compass.

E381 - Ritchie Compass Diaphragm Replacement

Ritchie Compass Diaphragm Replacement

ericsonyachts.org

They towed the boat back into the slip so the rudder wasn’t used.

 

[Bolo]

No, that doesn't pass the test with me. Rule number one with yard work is that they never do anything more than they absolutely have to do.

When they dropped your rudder, all they had to do was loosen the steering cable and remove the quadrant. There was no reason for them to address any part of the steering cable that rises above the under-deck area. It would have been WAY more work for them to pull the entire length of the steering cable up through the cockpit pass-through holes to cross/uncross the cables inside the pinnacle--none of which is required to drop the rudder. Makes no sense.
View attachment 54038

I'd maybe keep gathering my facts before chewing out the mechanic about the compass. Again, there would be no reason for them to work inside the pinnacle when dropping your rudder.

I tried to find a before photo in my archives of the cable arrangement at the quadrant and although I have many photos of the boat, even some inits hidden recesses, I can’t find any of the quadrant. If anyone has a photo like that I’d love to see it. My Monday morning meeting with the service manager should reveal all, I hope.

 

[Captain Pete]

I tried to find a before photo in my archives of the cable arrangement at the quadrant and although I have many photos of the boat, even some inits hidden recesses, I can’t find any of the quadrant. If anyone has a photo like that I’d love to see it. My Monday morning meeting with the service manager should reveal all, I hope.

Some pics I recently took of my 32-3 to share with the guy who bought my 35-3 and jammed the rudder at a 90 degree angle somehow (I suspect he went beyond the stopper in some exuberant docking). These may or may not help with your discussion with your yard on what sure sounds like somebody screwing up. Good luck - anxious to hear what you learn and how things get resolved.

 

[Kenneth K]

Hey Bolo, I think you have some answers for you. I was out at my boat winterizing today, so I took some photos. The cables DO need to be crossed, but this doesn't require accessing the binnacle. They just get crossed below deck, before they go to the pulleys (idler sheaves).



I was quite surprised, when viewing mine, that the cables interfere with each other where they cross. They both deflect quite a bit where they touch. Obviously that would create some chafing contact when steering, but I would describe my steering as butter smooth.

Anyway, the yard needs to detach the cables from the quadrant (disc) and sheaves, cross them so they run over the opposite sheave, and then reattach to the quadrant. All this can be done from under the cockpit. Hope this helps.

 

[Christian Williams]

For the next guy:

The complete resource for all YS/Merriman steering on our boats: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/resources/merriman-binnacle-catalog.187/

For chafe resistance, port cable should pass aft of starboard cable.

 

[Kenneth K]

For chafe resistance, port cable should pass aft of starboard cable.

Damn! Guess I'm going to have to go in there and try crossing them the other way. Looks like my port cable crosses forward of the starboard. Been that way for 3 years.

(Bottom of photo is forward direction)

 

[Bolo]

The rigger who worked on the rudder install was finally able to return to my boat to fix his mistake. Young guy who also replaced all of my standing rigging about two years ago. I showed him the Yacht Specialties diagram and instructions that Christian provided (see two postings back) and he even downloaded it into his own phone for future reference. So, yes, the cables were not crossed and the rigger did not know about putting the port cable aft of the starboard cable because of the offset sheaves to prevent chafing. To be honest I didn't know about that either till I read it. I left him to his work because I had to leave so I'm hoping I'll find things in proper order when I go back this week.

What amazed me was how did this happen? Surely he's done this sort of work before on sailboats and the principles of where the rudder post and quadrant are located in relation to the binnacle are the same on any boat with chain and wire steering. Didn't he check his work? It turns out that he did...sort of. He apologized (three times) to me for his mistake and confessed that when he and his less experience assistant re-installed the rudder and he checked it, he was up in the cockpit with the wheel and couldn't see the rudder. So he sent his assistant down to ground level to watch the rudder while he turned the wheel.

It seems that the assistant didn't know port from starboard and said it all looked fine. What should have happened was to have the assistant turn the wheel while the rigger was below looking at the rudder turn. His story made me laugh and sad almost at the same time.