• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

Yanmar 1GM10 cold weather starting

wynkoop

Member III
I decided not to hijack another thread and instead start my own.

Today was my first try at starting the 1GM10 in the cold since installing it.

My batteries are group 24. Battery 1 seems to be somewhat weak.

In general I try to use battery 1 most of the time keeping battery 2 in reserve.

Temps when I arrived:

Air: 27

Water: 28 (at the surface - slushie ice observed)

Cabin at eye level: 30

Engine room (measured with my circulating water probe): 34.4

Battery 1: 13 volts
Battery 2: 13.4 volts

First attempted to start on Battery 1 failed - Cranked a few times with about 10 seconds between each attempt and stopped using it when it was down to 11.9 volts

Next attempted to start on Battery 2 - Success but took 3 tries.

I am sure had I removed the ladder, the engine cover, and released then dropped the compression release after she was turning at speed she would have started sooner. My goal was to see how she starts when cold, and this tells me those of us without glow plugs have a distinct handicap. For dockside starting I can of course have any number of shore power heating solutions from magnetic things to hydronic heaters and everything in between, but I want to duplicate the utility of a glow plug. The idea is if I am out on the hook fishing, or have just been on a several hour sail I want to get started with minimal fuss.

I am currently thinking of a 12 volt window defroster forced air heater aimed into the air cleaner. I figure I blast hot air into the air cleaner for a minute the engine should start combusting on the first try.

Thoughts and feedback please?
 

gabriel

Live free or die hard
I wouldn’t mess with any heaters in the engine room, sounds like a recipe for a fire.

since that engine doesn’t seem to have been designed with glow plug (strange for an indirect injection diesel) i would assume it was designed to start fine without one. So how old are your batteries?
 

goldenstate

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Brett - You are dealing with lower ambient temperatures than I am with my Yanmar, but I would start with the premise that if your engine needed glow plugs, it would have been designed with them.

There is a Yanmar owner's group on Facebook with a couple of very knowledgeable people who chime in on these sorts of questions. "Yanmar Marine Engine Owner's Group - Repair and Discussion" Danny Fong will have an answer for you.

It sometimes takes me two attempts to start my engine, though low 50's/high 40's Fahrenheit are probably the coldest I have experienced. Once I have been sailing for a few hours and then turn the engine back on heading home, mine always purrs like a kitten immediately.

Yanmar makes "themostart" devices for their Deere tractors, but I can't find any guides to them for marine applications.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Here's a thread on testing batteries.

It isn't hijacking a thread to add a new question on the related topic. In fact, growing an existing thread provides a whole history of discussion on the subject.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Gabriel-

Further research on my part has turned up that for many diesels out there there are purpose built air pre-heaters for the air intake when temps get cold, so I do not think my idea to preheat the intake air is so terrible. Diesel is also has a much higher flashpoint than gasoline.

My current thought is to fix the heater on the opposite side of a bulkhead that has a hole in it already from a blower that was replaced with a different unit that mounted differently. Simply the little defroster unit would blow warm air at the air intake on the air filter. By being some 6 or so inches from it I can assure the intake air is warmer than the ambient temp yet assure I am not pumping in so much heat as to damage the air filter.

Tom-

I have not seen any mention of extreme cold weather starting in the shop manual for the 1gm10. I suspect Yanmar never expected anyone to really use the engine in a boat at low temps. It does specify oil for colder temps though. Maybe they think we all have huge batteries. I would feel blessed to be able to fit a pair of group 27 batteries. Maybe time to redesign the battery space!

Do those thermostart devices run off 12V or 110? Like I have mentioned before there are plenty of possibilities if I want to count on having shore power.

Christian-

Thanks for the thread on battery testing. I have no need to test my number 1 battery. I know it is living on borrowed time. Last winter the combination of my leaking stuffing box, a shore power outage and the pump running till the battery could power it no longer, then continuing to draw current until the battery was down to 6 volts when I visited the boat told me all I needed to know about that battery's condition. Lead acid batteries do not recover from that abuse. I am amazed that by nursing it along I was able to get it to take anything that resembles a full charge. I suspect I will get one more out of it, which is sad for it was a new battery just months before the unintentional abuse. On the project list is a low voltage cutoff for the bilge pump.

--------

My goal is to get Silver Maiden into a condition where I can take her pretty much anyplace in North or South American waters, as long as the waters are not frozen, without the need for shore support except occasional food and diesel supplies. I can sail her in and out of tricky places single handed, but having the diesel can make things easier and safer, especially in cold weather.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Just had a look.....Thermostart seems to be a glow plug that gets diesel fed to it to produce a fire to heat things up. Interesting.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Thermostart described by someone on another site:

"Thermostart itself is kind of unique to Yanmars. It's a combination of a plastic reservoir, relay valve, and heating element all located on top of the intake manifold and activated by turning the ignition key CCW then holding it in that position for a moment.

When actuated, thermostart dispenses and then ignites a small drop of diesel fluid from the special reservoir. You can hear a faint "pop" as it ignites. That's the notice that it is time to crank the engine. If you time it right, the warmer air and maybe even some of the burning fluid is swept into the manifold along with the fresh air charge.

Simple, pretty nifty and just about bulletproof." - https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/yanmar/386629-yanmars-thermostart.html
 

wynkoop

Member III
Yes Gabriel, but my number 2 battery is good. New this summer. I suppose a few tries on the good battery is not so terrible, but I really do not want to be unable to start when the temp is really low.

Consensus on the net seems to be that the 1gm10 gets hard to start at low temps, so I suppose it will be the remove the ladder and engine cover drill and lift the decompressor lever if I need to start it in the teens or 20s and I do not have shore power available. Not the most fun to do if you are rolling, and tough if under sail single handed, as is my usual way to sail, thus my looking for some sort of heat solution I can activate from the panel.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Gabriel I should also mention the "bad battery" started her just fine all the way down to 45 degrees, which was the previous low starting temp.
 

wynkoop

Member III
I should also make it clear this thread is not about a problem starting. It is about how does one with a non-glow plug diesel get it to start quick and easy at low temps. So the condition of my number 1 battery is of little moment, except to show that the engine became harder to start at 34 degrees than at 45 degrees.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I don't see the problem. Your engine started in three tries at 27F and you apparently do have a built-in heating device.

Use the good battery, no harm will come to it.
 

racushman

O34 - Los Angeles
Gabriel - I had a Yanmar QM series engine on another boat that drove me crazy for years because of how hard it was to start, especially in cooler weather. It would crank and crank and crank. So much so that I would have to turn off the raw water for fear of flooding the engine thru the mixing elbow. Eventually one cylinder would start to fire, and then with successive cranking you could get the thing to start. And then don't forget to turn the raw water back on!! It was a total CF.

The engine did not have glow plugs, but was designed that way like yours. I finally posted the story to a forum that Torrenson Marine hosted, and an old timer told me that Yanmar non-glow plug engines are incredibly sensitive to ignition timing and I should follow the procedure in the shop manual to check that mine was right. I did indeed find that my timing was off, and after correcting it the engine would fire on the first revolution just like a good diesel should. It was like a miracle cure.

I would highly recommend checking this if you haven't done so already. On my engine there was a set of copper shims you would buy from Yanmar, and inserting more or less would advance or retard the timing. It was not complicated to do, but took patience.
 

gabriel

Live free or die hard
if I need to start it in the teens or 20s

you are brave man to go boating in those temps. I would be worried about icebergs and frostbite!

Out here in SoCal, upper forties and I’m already crying for mommy.
 

wynkoop

Member III
Christian I only have a heating device at the moment at the dock (my electric cabin heat), but I do intend to install a window defroster pointing at the air intake. The 1GM10 is totally without a prestart heating device.

Yep she started at 27, what about 17? I know for most of you that sounds way too wild, but I live on an island and I have already been through one lockdown where for weeks I would not have been allowed off the island if I was not required on an adjacent island for emergency communications.

One of the reasons I keep the boat in the water all year, besides the occasional winter sail is so I can leave if I want to.

Gabriel, when I was at the academy I used to race 420's in the winter. There was something called the frostbite series of regattas. As I recall we raced West Point, USCGA, USNA, Sunny Maritime and Wagner. I had to borrow a wet suit from a class mate that was a diver. We actually had to use our Boston Whalers as ice breakers to make a path from the academy marina to the open water in Long Island Sound.

I no longer sail dinks in the winter, but Silver Maiden is a fairly comfortable winter sail.

Next test will be when the temp drops below 20. I will report back. It may be that I find I need nothing and the engine starts fine with no preheating. The manual lists -22F as the lowest temp that Yanmar has an oil recommendation for, so perhaps I should just not worry and be happy!
 
Top