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Change is not always improvement [Defender, West Marine]

P

Pete the Cat

Sustaining Member
Defender and West Marine (recently filed for bankruptcy) were taken over by private equity and I think you see the resultsf. I am not sure if this was the whole cause of their downfall. Certainly there were problems in the retail Marine industry before either was taken over, but I have little respect for how the private equity vultures work and the kind of "expertise' they bring into businesses they take over (Vet clinics, dental offices have been primary targets). Now you are seeing Safe Harbors taking over marinas and wringing the last dollars they can out of them as they follow the West Marine corporate model of bigger is better and offering small business folks retirement deals they cannot refuse. Seems like the modern business model is just about quarterly profit and customers, employees, and long term investors be damned.
 
Prairie Schooner

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
Pete the Cat said:
Defender and West Marine (recently filed for bankruptcy) were taken over by private equity and I think you see the resultsf. I am not sure if this was the whole cause of their downfall. Certainly there were problems in the retail Marine industry before either was taken over, but I have little respect for how the private equity vultures work and the kind of "expertise' they bring into businesses they take over (Vet clinics, dental offices have been primary targets). Now you are seeing Safe Harbors taking over marinas and wringing the last dollars they can out of them as they follow the West Marine corporate model of bigger is better and offering small business folks retirement deals they cannot refuse. Seems like the modern business model is just about quarterly profit and customers, employees, and long term investors be damned.
Click to expand...

Wow, Ray, news to me about West Marine. Though, another member here worked pt at one in the Midwest and it closed in the past (6?) months.

I just went back in email and it seems the last time I ordered from Defender was over a year ago. Things must have devolved since then. The site is still unavailable. Hard to believe an online retailer would let website problems go on this long. They keep sending the weekly promotional emails though. Based on what you say, there might be more going on over there in Waterford than an IT glitch.

Meanwhile, my order from Fisheries Supply is on it's way. I'll have to give Hodges a try.
 
D

Drewm3i

Member III
Pete the Cat said:
Defender and West Marine (recently filed for bankruptcy) were taken over by private equity and I think you see the resultsf. I am not sure if this was the whole cause of their downfall. Certainly there were problems in the retail Marine industry before either was taken over, but I have little respect for how the private equity vultures work and the kind of "expertise' they bring into businesses they take over (Vet clinics, dental offices have been primary targets). Now you are seeing Safe Harbors taking over marinas and wringing the last dollars they can out of them as they follow the West Marine corporate model of bigger is better and offering small business folks retirement deals they cannot refuse. Seems like the modern business model is just about quarterly profit and customers, employees, and long term investors be damned.
Click to expand...
As a pro, I still love my West Marine (Port Supply) in the Annapolis area--it is well-stocked, prices are decent enough, and all of the supplies are OEM or equivalent quality. It is great for wire and connectors, switches/breakers/fuses, hoses, pumps, filters, oils, impellers, batteries and chargers, etc. Most specialized or big-ticket items I simply order from Amazon or an online marine chandlery/wholesaler.

I talked to the manager at my West Marine location recently and he said the company is not going under--only that they are restructuring, dumping locations that are not profitable: i.e. getting out of some bad site leases. It really sounds like the business got too bloated over the 2000s and they are trimming the fat so it survives; they have also really improved their website and web-ordering process in the last few years as well. I am rooting for them (and the other marine chandleries like Faucet, Defender, etc.). I have always found the staff to be decent enough, and at least willing to try to help as well.
 
bigd14

bigd14

Sustaining Partner
Blogs Author
Defender website works fine for me right now.

I have ordered several times from them this year and they have been great, and usually lowest price I can find. I’m sorry to hear of others bad experiences with them.

I have twice now had issues with the West Marine website, one showed an item in store that when I went there and inquired about was not there and another similar inventory issue that led to half my order being canceled after it was placed.
 
KS Dave

KS Dave

Dastardly Villain
Blogs Author
Website is working just fine for me, too.

For what it's worth, I just ordered from Defender a few weeks ago and had zero issues. In fact, I ordered a part only to find a similar one in my junk box the next day. I called them up and it was too late to cancel, but the rep I talked to offered a free return (they paid for shipping). Zero complaints from me.
 
Filkee

Filkee

Sustaining Member
Defender’s website has made it impossible for me to complete a transaction. Maybe it’s my own ineptitude, but I click the Apple Pay button and get caught in a loop. Meanwhile, they hired someone amazing my local shipyard who can do math and search for things and talk to me about what I need. He tells me it will be there Tuesday and it is and if I’m running late, someone stashes it outside. I think when I was a kid they called it retail. I’m starting to think it’s worth the price.
 
gabriel

gabriel

Live free or die hard
I was pretty bummed out when my local west marine store shut down recently. Not only was it the closest place to buy quality stainless hardware, but the lady who worked there was really nice to me and my daughters, having seen them with me every year since they were infants. I used to enjoy chatting with her and so did my girls. I hope I see her again around town someday.

I’ll definitely miss the convenience of that store.
 
bsangs

bsangs

E35-3 - New Jersey
Prairie Schooner said:
Wow, Ray, news to me about West Marine. Though, another member here worked pt at one in the Midwest and it closed in the past (6?) months.

I just went back in email and it seems the last time I ordered from Defender was over a year ago. Things must have devolved since then. The site is still unavailable. Hard to believe an online retailer would let website problems go on this long. They keep sending the weekly promotional emails though. Based on what you say, there might be more going on over there in Waterford than an IT glitch.

Meanwhile, my order from Fisheries Supply is on it's way. I'll have to give Hodges a try.
Click to expand...
WM hasn't actually filed for Chapter 11. There were a couple stories last week about it preparing for a potential Chapter 11, but there's been no movement on it since. They did close one of the WM near me last year, but I always found its location a bit odd. And I'm not sure what's going on with the Defender website for you, Jeff. I ordered from it twice just this past week with no issues. Clear your browser's cache and cookies and try again. :) (That's my computer help desk assistance for the week. That'll be $120 please.)
 
Prairie Schooner

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
bsangs said:
WM hasn't actually filed for Chapter 11. There were a couple stories last week about it preparing for a potential Chapter 11, but there's been no movement on it since. They did close one of the WM near me last year, but I always found its location a bit odd. And I'm not sure what's going on with the Defender website for you, Jeff. I ordered from it twice just this past week with no issues. Clear your browser's cache and cookies and try again. :) (That's my computer help desk assistance for the week. That'll be $120 please.)
Click to expand...
Really weird that you're getting through. I'll give the cache clearing a shot Brian. I get blocked on two separate browsers on my laptop and on my phone. But I just tried Donna's phone and got through. ?????
 
bsangs

bsangs

E35-3 - New Jersey
Prairie Schooner said:
Really weird that you're getting through. I'll give the cache clearing a shot Brian. I get blocked on two separate browsers on my laptop and on my phone. But I just tried Donna's phone and got through. ?????
Click to expand...
If cache and cookies being cleared doesn't work, are you running a VPN? Ad blocker? Anything like that? Changing your primary DNS might work too. (Sorry that my computer networking nerd flag is starting to fly.)
 
JSM

JSM

Sustaining Member
Prairie Schooner said:
Wow, Ray, news to me about West Marine. Though, another member here worked pt at one in the Midwest and it closed in the past (6?) months.
Click to expand...
I worked at the Chicago WM for five years before its closing in November of 25. When West first came the Chicago in the late '80's they were in two store fronts in a small strip mall. Around 2015 they moved into a brand new stand alone building on the Chicago river.
The new store was beautiful , 12 isles of merchandise with everything from clothing to water toys, a massive electronics department and an engine parts department.
The store was rumored to have never made a dime, rent was thru the roof and towards the end the real estate taxes had rose to over 1 million annually. Between November and April the place was a ghost town.
West has opened an new store in the far south suburbs of the city where the rent is probably dirt cheap. The new store is a striped down version of the old one with just the essentials and has a home depot feel to it.
The problem with the new store is that it is close to an hours drive from any of the Chicago harbors.
 
Prairie Schooner

Prairie Schooner

Jeff & Donna, E35-3 purchased 7/21
bsangs said:
If cache and cookies being cleared doesn't work, are you running a VPN? Ad blocker? Anything like that? Changing your primary DNS might work too. (Sorry that my computer networking nerd flag is starting to fly.)
Click to expand...

I run a pop-up blocker on one browser and keep all settings to restrict cookies and permissions like I was fighting the hantavirus while Donna welcomes them in like long lost relatives. I should add that she started her career as a software engineer and went on to manage development of products like complete combat systems for a major defense contractor. So I make no claim of moral or technological superiority here.

I'll poke at this later today.
 
Christian Williams

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Retail struggles because we buy stuff on line. It's a trade-off. The lure of retail is that everything is there on the shelf and we get mad when it isn't. On line delivers fast and most can be returned for free. They seem to be mutually exclusive, at least at scale.

The classic example is shoes. Lots of shoes on the retail shelf, but none in my size. Infinite number of sizes makes inventory difficult. Now to Zappos.com--buy two pair and send the ones that don't fit back for free.

For boat gear I go on line and pit one supplier against another. Sometimes WM wins. 'Deliver to store' saves big on life rafts, oars other items expensive to ship.

Competition is brutal, and a storefront now a luxury. I miss the old days but only because i have forgotten the reality.
 
P

Pete the Cat

Sustaining Member
You are right, I was wrong. WM is not in Chapter 11. They have been through a number of restructurings under various management turnovers where they filed some IRS protections in return, but not Chapter 11 for the whole business. Some stores may survive for a time though I am not sure about the future of recreational sailing, let alone retail stores for sailors. I am old enough to have bought dinghy lines from Randy Repass in his first steel corrugated warehouse when he started the whole thing in Palo Alto when he was just out of Stanford--Was called West Coast Ropes then . Then he got some cash from his dad and started buying up all the frustrating little chandleries in boat yards and renting closed down supermarkets and offering munch more merchandise at better prices. They then became the monolith for a brief period of marine retail store chains by buying anyone who tried to compete with them (the East Coast chain I can't remember the name in the 1980s) and went public. Then bought out by private equity when they sort of over extended themselves with retail bricks and mortar. Now taken out by online rapid shopping and internet selection and prices. And Randy is very very rich.
 
bsangs

bsangs

E35-3 - New Jersey
Pete the Cat said:
You are right, I was wrong. WM is not in Chapter 11. They have been through a number of restructurings under various management turnovers where they filed some IRS protections in return, but not Chapter 11 for the whole business. Some stores may survive for a time though I am not sure about the future of recreational sailing, let alone retail stores for sailors. I am old enough to have bought dinghy lines from Randy Repass in his first steel corrugated warehouse when he started the whole thing in Palo Alto when he was just out of Stanford--Was called West Coast Ropes then . Then he got some cash from his dad and started buying up all the frustrating little chandleries in boat yards and renting closed down supermarkets and offering munch more merchandise at better prices. They then became the monolith for a brief period of marine retail store chains by buying anyone who tried to compete with them (the East Coast chain I can't remember the name in the 1980s) and went public. Then bought out by private equity when they sort of over extended themselves with retail bricks and mortar. Now taken out by online rapid shopping and internet selection and prices. And Randy is very very rich.
Click to expand...
You should have waited a couple days. :) WM Files for Chapter 11
 
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