Automotive Paint?

[simplemonkey]

I am repainting hull/deck this winter and it has been suggested by a professional painter that one can use automotive paint over epoxy primer for a finish as good as marine products but at 1/3 of the product cost. Has anyone had any experience with this process and could you please comment.
Thanks,
David
E35-II
"Quo Vadis"
New Orleans, LA

 

[tenders]

Sounds like a great idea...if you have a steel boat you keep in the garage all year, and can paint and bake it in a spray booth.

 

[Emerald]

I believe that you'll find automotive paint doesn't handle the flexing nearly as well, nor the constant water exposure and salt exposure. Awlgrip and Imron are very hard, and can endure great flex and expansion, which I believe your boat does much more of than your automobile.

There have also been great developments in some of the two part brushable/sprayable paints from folks like Interlux. Just for reference, check out the different products Interlux has to offer:

http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/default.asp


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[Rob Hessenius]

Automotive Paint

David- I think that there are some paints that can be applied in auto and marine applications i.e Imron, Awlgrip. They both work great. I think that you will find that the auto paints are expensive too. Interlux and Pettit have been around a long time and have formulated their products for all the conditions. Many of their products are geared for the DIY person. They also have paints that are for the guys who make a living. There are a few concerns for you to think about if you go with a auto paint that might make you re-think this. Ask yorself these three questions.
1. Do you walk on your car?
2. Is your car constantly sitting next to alot of water?
3. Do you think that the auto paint rep is going to stand behind his product when he sees it on a boat
When you have a issue? You might think that you are saving some money, but it just might become really expensive in the long run.
I had a guy tell me he uses household exterior laytex paint on his boat. His belief is that this product is on many more houses than any boat paint out there. He believes that there is alot more R and D out there on the said paints. And after his whole shpeel he told me he bought his boat for $100 bucks and there was no way he would spend more money on paint than what he paid for the whole vessel. There was'nt much I could say but this is what popped out of my mouth, "You Go Dutch Boy" Rob Hessenius

 

[rwthomas1]

I would think that preparation and application technique is far more important than the actual paint, within reason. Imron, IIRC, was/is an aviation product? I have also seen Awlgrip blister up, scuff easily, etc. to know that its not any miracle product. Regarding automotive paint and flexing this is not a big deal. Flex agents can be added to the paint to allow it to move. How do you think they paint all the plastic on cars today? I would have no issue putting catalyzed urethane automotive paint on a boat. Corvettes are fiberglass, remember?

I have seen a buddy apply epoxy high build primer with a roller, two coats, then sand then again roll-and-tip Interlux two part polyurethane to a fantastic finish. The gloss and durability rivals the expensive paint jobs in the slips next to him for pennies on the dollar.

I don't think housepaint is appropriate but you can do a decent job for not much money. RT

 

[BrianP]

paint

In my yard a guy has done this to his bristol 40 and with very nice results for the past 5 yrs. The miss conception is auto paint does not flex ----if so rubber bumper covers would look like crap. It all depends on your preferance a one step auto paint is inexpensive and touch up is easy if you use the right gun and buff out. They have painted polemer panels on cars (Saturns) and corrvette's are fiberglass GMC envoys have carbon fiber hoods. Talk to a paint expert The paint can be mixed properly and you do not need a heated paint booth for it to cure. Other issue fiberglass does not rust it may have moisture in it but prep done properly paint stays on.

 

[Chris Miller]

resale?

Just to throw another stick in the wheel- I'm not sure I'd purchase a boat that had been painted with automotive paint. I know that's not always at the front of our minds, but it still should be a consideration.
Just my $0.01 :nerd:
Chris

 

[Emerald]

Having done automotive painting (I will not claim expert status in this area, just have done some over the years, and worked with ranges from laquer, now obsolete, to new two parts and base coat clear coat stuff), I would still go with an Awlgrip or Imron finish over the auto paints. Yes, Corvettes are fiberglass, and I've seen a few with spider cracks in the finish (granted they were older cars and didn't have the newest paints on them). And yes, we have plastic cars now and paints have changed, but the prep is the costliest part of a good paint job, so why go a different way than the boat painting industry to maybe save a couple hundred bucks when the real cost is all the prep work? Also, by the time you are working in gallon quantities and using additives, I think you will find that the cost savings is not that much - the right auto finishes aren't cheap either. I also do question the hardness factor - the boat is salt water blasted constantly, and I think this is where the hardness comes in. I am not going to say Awlgrip or Imron won't scratch or blemish when you hit your pier - they will, it's a film, and I've yet to see anything as durable as original gelcoat when it comes to a nasty impact or scrape. Chris also makes a very valid point, and that's market acceptance. Whether right or wrong, the next buyer might be scared off from a finish that is not considered "proper", whatever that may be. And for the record, I do have Awlgrip on Emerald, and have found that the Awlgrip products for caring for the finish work very well and are reasonable in cost. 5 years later, she looks like she was just painted, except for where I hit the pier once


And as Loren often points out, the above thoughts are worth what you paid for them....

-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[Cory B]

Automotive Paint

Our previous boat was painted with a dark green 2 part automotive paint called "Duron" (no, not Imron) by Dupont by its previous owner. We sold it a few months back, and the paint did have its share of blemishes and scratches, but still looked pretty sharp - especially for being 12 years old. I can't say if it held up better or worse than a proper "marine" paint would have. That being said, if I were to take the time or pay the cost to prep the boat, I wouldn't hesitate to drop a few extra hundred $ for real "marine" paint.

Cory Bolton

 

[rwthomas1]

Ever hear of Akzo Nobel? They make car paint, boat paint and several other types of paint. Not to belabor the point, but I am guessing that sometimes the difference in paints is the label. RT

 

[CaptnNero]

resale

Just to throw another stick in the wheel- I'm not sure I'd purchase a boat that had been painted with automotive paint. I know that's not always at the front of our minds, but it still should be a consideration.
Just my $0.01 :nerd:
Chris

Chris and David are on to a relevant issue here. When it's time to place your proud vessel in the marketplace, you don't want to put the presenter of the vessel in the position of having to explain upgrades or changes made. Using a non-marine paint would fall into that trap. Depending on how loing you end up keeping the boat, using the non-marine paint could end up a false economy. If you don't mention the paint in the listing buyers are likely to notice and innocently ask "what kind of paint was used". Then they will generally be disappointed with the answer and word will get around to other brokers. That is as opposed to listings that proudly state the marine paint chosen.

Non-standard upgrades or poor workmanship are obstacles to re-sale producing longer time on the market and suppressing perceived value.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

My 1980 Mastercraft has PPG DAU polyurethane automotive basecoat clear coat on it. 12 years of abuse, no wax, left in the water and in the sun and it looks like it did the day it was painted. (Better than the original finish).

The only cracking where the original finish had cracks, the hull is painted with the same paint and there is no burn through from the prop wash, the hull cleans easily after a couple of months in the water. There are few scratches that show even with water toys, skis and other stuff hitting the boat.

When I paint my E29 I will use the same paint. It is chemical proof, fuel proof and water proof as paints go. I do not share that special purpose products are the best. Read the specs and make an intelligent decision. I have three vetts and the one with the old lacquer paint is cracked the ones with the urethane paint shines and look like they did when sprayed (the oldest paint is 10 years old on the vette).

As said before the prep is the key, clean the surface and then sand. If you sand a waxed surface you are spreading the wax to the area as you sand. Wax remover then sand. The urethanes don’t chalk like epoxy paint does. Rumkin my E29 was painted with a high grade "marine" chalking paint.

 

[CaptnNero]

those directions

My 1980 Mastercraft has PPG DAU polyurethane automotive basecoat clear coat on it. 12 years of abuse, no wax, left in the water and in the sun and it looks like it did the day it was painted. (Better than the original finish).

...

Now there's a real world testimonial if I ever heard one. Thanks Randy.

That's a good point about preparation and reading the instructions. I've seen owner applied paint that looked so bad that the next winter they paid pros
to redo it.

We've used Interlux polyurethane for redoing or adding some stripes with a brush and it came out well after some practice. With the stripes the precise taping was critical and took the most effort. We were religious about the temperature and climate conditions also. I wouldn't attempt doing a whole hull but I've heard of other owners getting a good result.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

People dread the applying of paint. Prep is 90% of the work, the paint will not look better than the surface it is applied over and will not stay on if not applied to a clean surface. The Mastercraft was a three month engine rebuild and paint and interior job. The engine was a week the interior a week so go figure what was spent on the prep when the paint application was two days (main color deck and hull, the stripe with stars and Mastercraft on the sides and the transom and then the clear that had to be applied within 24 hours of the rest.

I would not use any other paint due to the duration the paint has been on and the boat looks new.

I have been painting cars since I was 16 for my own use and friends (42 years) and the automotive paint might not be something to brush on.

I hope 60 hours is enough prep for the bottom job on my 29T