Espar Heater Install Questions in a 1988 38-200

[Bob Robertson]

Hi,

I am planning to install an Espar heater in our 1988 38-200 in the spring. However, I have thought about this before.

I am hoping that someone has completed an installation in a similar boat and would be willing to share their knowledge.

I am wondering which unit was chosen, were the heat registers(termilology?) are located, where the thermostat is located, and whether a water circulating unit was chosen. I am assuming the water circulating system is easiest to install. Running the larger air ducts forward from one of the lockers or from the engine compartment looks to be very difficult at best.

I haven't as yet been able to figure out the best route to run the heater hoses forward. The ice box pretty well blocks the port side.

Thanks,

 

[footrope]

Several good threads on heaters

Hi Bob,

The thread I started is here:

Discussion of heater choice

Hydronic won out for two main reasons (1) No good place to run 3" or 4" ducts without major surgery; and (2) Instant hot water.

Note that I have a plain old E38 with a starboard galley and forward head/shower on the port side. My hoses came in from aft, under the sink and then to starboard under the stove. Which interior do you have? I'd be glad to share more details of mine, but if we have different interiors it won't make much sense.

If you do a search on heater or Espar you'll find a number of other threads. The other current thread asking about installing in a 27 footer has pics of my stern and aft lazarette heater installation, for a start.

Cheers,

 

[Greg Ross]

Hydronic vs Hot Air

Spent a long weekend on a Catalina 38 in late November '06/ Vancouver Island, first time I've been sailing with 6" of snow on the Deck!
This was a 2002 Catalina and when brought up from S.F. last Summer did not have a heating system. Based on constraints as you describe the hydronic system was chosen. The boiler was located in the aft lazarette and was virtually silent. The main exchanger/ blower was located under the settee mid-cabin with the thermostat/ panel located at the nav. Station. Aft and fore cabins had smaller exchangers/ blowers with two speed fans. Installed 2006 Cdn. Dollars approx $7000. Amazing how compact a machine it is, guessing 6" dia. by 14" long with rigid exhaust out the hull side. In those temperatures you wouldn't be spending much time in the cockpit unless you were under way and then fumes wouldn't be a problem.
The Owner was around the yard while the installation was being done and indicated it was most of a weeks' work for one and two (experienced) people. (60 hours @ $60. is a big bill)
That particulatar weekend the weather was down to as low as -5 deg. C and humidity was a serious problem. Forward cabin was worst with so much external surface area relative to it's air volume. Owner has since brought aboard a small domestic dehumidifier. Small compact bulkhead "Marine" ones are available for $
If you're going Hydronic I would suggest you're going to be needing the Dehumidifier if you're going to spend time aboard when it's snappy cold. Remember the process of breathing (and cooking) would be the major sources of moisture.
I grew up with forced air heating and always liked that type of heat. Based on one posting in the linked Thread that talked about forced air, make-up air coming from out-of-doors and would be lower moisture content. With the built in ventilation aspect there's air change and humidity would be less of a problem.

 

[Bob Robertson]

Hi Craig,

My layout is similar to the attached layout. My icebox goes all the way to the port hull and the engine is under the companionway stairs. There doesn't appear to be a way of running hoses under the stove because the icebox is in the way.
I am curious, where are your heat registers located and how about your thermostat?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[Bob Robertson]

Hi Greg,

Late November, 'Vancouver Island, sailing with 6" of snow on the Deck!
I am seriously impressed.

Our boat is located on Lake Superior. We don't ever think of sailing in late November.

I think the hydronic system is definitely the way I will go. It's good to hear the boiler is so quiet. I was a little concerned.

The nav station seems like a good place for the thermostat.

I'm guessing that all of the fans were on at the same time.

I have been sailing when it's been cold and have experienced fairly heavy interior moisture build up. That was without any heat source. Does the dehumidifier you described run on 12v?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[footrope]

More details on hydronic

Bob,

We have different interiors. My engine is under the companionway stairs though. I had one heat exchanger (register) installed under the lip of the companionway, above the engine, blowing forward into the cabin. That required a simple wooden box because there wasn't enough depth.

On the right side, across from the dinette, I have a settee with a table. Under the aft seat is the other heat exchanger. Both have dual fans, allowing a high or low flow setting.

The thermostat is on the right, just aft of the above-mentioned settee seat, at shoulder level. On my boat there is a lazy-susan bottle cabinet behind the bulkhead where the t-stat is mounted. Keep in mind my galley is on the right at the bottom of the companionway stairs.

The humidity build-up with hydronic will eventually be an issue if it's cold, rainy, snow on the deck, etc. and you're staying or living aboard - or trapped. To make things worse, potentially, we will usually leave the heat off at night. That invites more condensation in the sleeping area. I don't know how bad it will get for us, or how much we'd have to run the heat and ventilate the boat at the same time, to dry it out. We'll have to report on that if we ever get out this winter. We want to go up to Edmonds sometime this winter to check out the shopping.

 

[footrope]

Thought of something else

I have the Hydronic D5 heater. I had quite a discussion with two installers and the local distributor (Boat Electric in Seattle) about how many BTUs were necessary in the E38. The installer I went with thought less was better - the interior volume is right on the borderline between the D5 and D10 recommendation. The D10 puts out about 24K BTU vs. 17K for the D5. Doing my own measurements of the volume and thinking about burning reg'lar old #2 diesel, I agreed with the D5 recommendation.

We think that the glow plug or igniter will last longer because we will be burning on "high" more of the time with the lower BTU output unit. Hotter should be cleaner for the innards of the unit. The boiler life may be reduced some, but I think that is even more difficult to predict than igniter life. Time will tell on durability. Kerosene would be even better, as Hodo suggests, and we have the option to switch to that by using a small tank.

The heat output is more than adequate and we have run it near freezing once at the dock. We elected not to heat the head or the v-berth. This is mostly a cost avoidance thing. We could add one more small heat exchanger later, if we need it.

I am not affiliated with Boat Electric. Their control panel design is worth the money and it centralizes, simplifies and cleans up the electrical installation.