Excessive E23 weather helm

[Sven]

When we got La Petite she had an ugly, really oversized J24 genoa. With that genoa La Petite had almost neutral helm.

Once we got a properly sized genoa from Seth, La Petite started showing excessive weather helm whenever the wind really picks up and we are close hauled. We'll reef to reduce the healing but that doesn't take care of it. The backstay isn't tensioned enough to be raking the mast back, unless the forestay is just too long.

Most of the time this excessive weather helm doesn't bother us since we usually don't bother beating our brains out against choppy seas and wind on the nose. However, on those occasions when we really have somewhere to go and that place is dead upwind with sustained whitecaps, then the excessive weather helm is a pain.

I've got a few thoughts regarding solutions, but I'd like to know if this is a common E23 problem and what brilliant ideas others might have.

She still sails like a dream and looks like it too, I just want her to be _more_ perfect



-Sven

 

[NateHanson]

What sort of shape is the mainsail in? Is it bagged out, with the draft back around mid-boom? That'd be my first suspect.

 

[Chris Miller]

Drop the Traveler...

We usually drop the traveler when we pick up serious weather helm. It helps reduce the angle of attack on the main while still allowing it to be properly sheeted. Otherwise try feathering the wheel/tiller to weather to pick up vmg and reduce heel.
These are the "death before reef" things we do.
Personally I vote for reefing to your first point and just reduce the sail area.
It is my understanding that most weather helm issues come from being overpowered.
Just thoughts ,
Chris

 

[Sven]

Hi Nate,

What sort of shape is the mainsail in? Is it bagged out, with the draft back around mid-boom? That'd be my first suspect.

It is an older sail, but not too baggy. It actually looks like it has been resewn from two sails because the fabric in the top and bottom are different, but the shape isn't bad.

Still worth taking another look.

Thanks, for the suggestion.


-Sven

 

[Sven]

Hi Chris,

It is my understanding that most weather helm issues come from being overpowered.
Just thoughts

Thanks, but the problem is there with the first (only) reef taken in.

The suggestions make me wonder if it might be a weight distribution problem. We stow the inflatable in the v-berth along with our bags and misc. other stuff under way. Excess wt in the bow could cause the stern to lift up more during healing, but ... no, that doesn't make too much sense because Nancy and I and the 4-stroke, anchors, etc. are counterbalancing.

I'll have to take a closer look at the main sail shape.

Thanks,


-Sven

 

[NateHanson]

Is your reefing line run from the boom below the cringle, up through the reef cringle, and back to the aft end of the boom? (is the reefed sail getting pulled aft as much as possible to keep it flat?)

 

[Seth]

Helmy?

Hi Sven!

Just curious what you mean by excessive...Certainly the things that create helm are:

Heeling
Weight forward of CG
Too much aft rake
Being overpowered; which can come from:
Too much sail
Sails too full
Too much Headstay sag-
Genoa Leads too far forward.

Certainly it sounds as though you may have a bit too much weight in the bow, but we will need to know more specifics, such as at what wind speed does this occur, etc. From what you say-I suspect a combo of fwd weight and hs sag, but we need to dig further..

To speed things up (since you have my #), why don't you call me today and we can work through some of the possibilities-then we can post our conclusions and results?

We can work it out...

S

 

[Bob in Va]

Something is way out, because the E-23 should balance nicely with everything trimmed well. My mast is very close to vertical, and even with the wind up the boat has a nice, light, what I call "two-finger" helm that builds when a puff hits, but is easily controlled by easing the traveler. (I'm assuming La Petite has a traveler - some 23s did not) When I added a Harken windward sheeting traveler car it became even easier to control the variations in helm pressure. Sure, a big gust can hit and the boat wants to round up if left to herself, but even with a rail under she is controllable (though helm pressure is very heavy then). If you look closely at the picture below, you can see the traveler is down, the mainsheet is way in, and the tiller is almost amidships. (Backstay is also tensioned) I am keeping the tiller relatively centered by easing the traveler when helm pressure builds, then coming back up with it when pressure eases. This was a pretty windy day with frequent harder gusts. Though it sounds too basic, I would check the rig dimensions - there has been more than one case where a mast or boom or both are not of original size, and sails, too, though I know your genoa is correctly dimensioned.