• Untitled Document

    Join us on March 29rd, 7pm EST

    for the CBEC Virtual Meeting

    All EYO members and followers are welcome to join the fun and get to know the guest speaker!

    See the link below for login credentials and join us!

    March Meeting Info

    (dismiss this notice by hitting 'X', upper right)

EY.c Future: Would you pay for a site like EY.c?

How much is acceptable to you? This assumes the site's costs are covered.


  • Total voters
    107
Status
Not open for further replies.

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
EY.c Where to go...

jnevins said:
Not to sound too humbug about the issue but I see no reason that the information contained in this site should become fee based. Every bit of the valuable information is contributed by the members. The knowledge is shared freely because we care about our boats and are interested in fostering community. A website such as this does not have to cost any money to host. One need only take a look at the Yahoo discussion boards as well as newsnet discussion lists and their rich archives The Ericson list on sailnet already functions quite well... ( http://list.sailnet.net/read/?forum=ericson ). All of the archived information can be hosted for free at www.doteasy.com. At that unix based hosing service, there are no ads associated with any custom site posted to their server at all. Domain registration costs are very cheap these days (under $5/year).

If this site is being threatened with closure due to money issues I will gladly take over all responsibility for moving it in its entirety to doteasy servers and will maintain it gratis.

Jerry Nevins
Solstice
1972 E-32-2
Noank, CT

What do I think? Well - I was going to write a long response - but I've gotten the crud over the holidays and feel really horrible; so this will be more brief and to the point (and this is less toward you and more toward the general discussion - although I would like to touch on a couple of points in your post):

1.) Ericsons are no longer produced - and the remaining line of yachts is aging. This means that if the line is to stay 'of interest' to the boat-buying crowd, they have to be maintained and improved as we go forward. This requires communication and community on the owners part.

The lack of production also means lack of on-going profit for the manufacturer - and thus lack of interest in supporting the owners. Sailnet (as nice as they are) and PSC care only about the Ericson family only to the extent that they can make a profit from them. Once that opportunity is removed or diminished, they bail (current situation).

2.) The Ericson family needs stable, permanent place to call home (aka - community) - where all their discussions and documents can mass; where new prospective owners can do real research on the line of boats and the issues facing them; where existing owners can trade information and add to the knowledgebase; and where former owners can pass the reins of control (of the site) off to newer, younger, upcoming owners who share the same interest. It does not have to cost a fortune ($15 bucks a year, probably)

3.) A mail list does not a site make. Try doing extensive searching on Sailnet, looking for specific issues on specific boats - then do the same thing on EY.c - you'll see what I mean. One is a genuine discussion-thread format, backed up on MySQL - the other is a list serve with indexed messages (apples-oranges). Not only this, but EY.c offers many other features to the users (Owners Registry, Projects, Links, Reference Documents, etc).

4.) You get what you pay for - nothing is free. For four years I carried EY.c on my own checking account, managed it myself, etc. Sailnet offers a share of an email list server because they think you'll buy your next winch handle from them. Software has to be upgraded - someone has to backup and maintain the site. The work can be done by people who are knowledgeable - but the cost of the hosting, software and registration has to be paid for.

5.) Abandon the misperception that you can run a site like EY.c on a Geocities-like offering. The EY.c site runs on three MySQL databases, has eight php applications, various monitoring capacities, etc. Its bandwidth is manageable (approx 300-500mb a day - almost 600mb of disk space. It is (despite some of my poorer artistic skills - and no major facelifts since 2000) not a personal website - you cannot run it like one. The host has to be secure - reliable - established. Those who maintain it have to have a decent idea of what they're doing - from writing the pages, to fixing the bugs in php, to building and maintaining the databases, to replying politely to users who have no idea what a 'login' is. :confused:

6.) This is a decision that only a dedicated group of owners can make - and a long term effort that has to be supported by a reasonable percentage of the Ericson ownership. EY.c gained popularity over time - and amassed its knowledgebase over time - because of the work I and a few other people put into it.

A permanent solution to this situation can be created - but it will require the dedication of a small group of Ericson supporters, and the support of a reasonable percentage of the owners (I would say at least 250-300). Again, it does not have to cost a fortune - there is lots of support for an inexpensive paid site - but, like everything else in life, if you put little out, you get little back in return.

What do you think? :egrin:

//sse
 

rssailor

Moderator
Sean,
There appear to be a majority of folks here that will support a paid member website. Why not make a proposal to us (members of EY.c) and lets move forward to keep the site up and running. What kind of dollars will it take to keep this site going in its current format and allow for future improvement? What is the deal with PSC anyway? Do they now own the site and the name has to change, or are they abandoning the site to you?
As I have said before, I wanna see this site continue and am willing to pay to do this. Keep up the awesome work and get better soon. Ryan
 

JORGE

Member III
Sean,

You are doing a great job in the upkeep of the website. The fee idea sounds valid as long as there is a need . It is as good to anyone that would pay a sum for a magazine subscription. A nominal amount for membership rights sounds fine,could vary annually by the number of members, and the cost of operations, just like a non-profit Yacht club.
In addition, I believe that an owners asociation is a great idea, if started it should be registered as a non-profit operation, later on..the logo/identity stuff. If a non-profit org is setup it willl probably need a committee of members, with two or more assigned people for each association task (backups). The sales of E logo material and perhaps a buyer's group (cooperative) would allow "members" discounts of sailing equipment. Bringing in more members. Voted on, or Volunteer chair people for the owners association?

A separate page for boating related advertisers seems like a good idea, a small fee could be charged for a spot on the website, vared, of course by size of ad(within limitations)

What are the itemized expenses so far?in the future?
How would payments be managed?


If PSC refuses to pay for the site, then what do we need PSC for? Maybe they would like to advertise, on an ad page?

What do other owner associations do, how do they operate?
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
JORGE said:
Sean,

You are doing a great job in the upkeep of the website. The fee idea sounds valid as long as there is a need . It is as good to anyone that would pay a sum for a magazine subscription. A nominal amount for membership rights sounds fine,could vary annually by the number of members, and the cost of operations, just like a non-profit Yacht club.
In addition, I believe that an owners asociation is a great idea, if started it should be registered as a non-profit operation, later on..the logo/identity stuff. If a non-profit org is setup it willl probably need a committee of members, with two or more assigned people for each association task (backups). The sales of E logo material and perhaps a buyer's group (cooperative) would allow "members" discounts of sailing equipment. Bringing in more members. Voted on, or Volunteer chair people for the owners association?

A separate page for boating related advertisers seems like a good idea, a small fee could be charged for a spot on the website, vared, of course by size of ad(within limitations)

What are the itemized expenses so far?in the future?
How would payments be managed?


If PSC refuses to pay for the site, then what do we need PSC for? Maybe they would like to advertise, on an ad page?

What do other owner associations do, how do they operate?

Yes - I agree with many of your points above:

- Site ownership/Control: What I would suggest is a volunteer 'steering committee' made up of an odd number (like 5 or 7) of the most active of EY.c members - and hopefully people who are either very savvy computer users, or who are in the industry (software people, engineers, etc). This committee would make the long range decisions, collect monies, pay the bills, etc. They would operate from a common agreement which would stipulate how they are elected - how power transfers to new committee members, what the mission of the organization is, etc.

The software this board runs on provides paid subscription service as well as 'private' forums for management groups - so the infrastructure is there already.

Beneath the steering committee would be a technical advisory group which would actually oversee the website operations, upgrades, new pages, etc. The organization itself would not need to be a 'formal' group - but members would need to agree to the terms of a Memorandum of Understanding - which would spell all these issues out clearly.

- Monies could come from three possible sources: The members could pay some nominal fee for posting rights on the board, e-news letter, etc. There are several 'angel' members who have volunteered to pay more than the others to carry the organization (like $100 a year); they most likely would be on the steering committee. A third source are vendors who wish to have their products/services submitted to the membership - and would either pay or cover some of the cost (for instance - perhaps we could get the hosting company to agree to provide free or discounted hosting in exchange for an advert on the site promoting their company).

- Legal issues surrounding the logo would have to be taken up separately. PSC purchased the site from me in 2003 - and they are the legal holders of the Ericson logo. I would hope some arrangement could be struck with them regarding its use (perhaps in exchange for an advert/link, etc).

Regardless - the time has come for the Ericson owners to step up and own/manage their own affairs. You asked for an example? Try looking at the California Cape Dory Owner's Association (another group of excellent boats that are no longer produced); they were the group I modeled EY.c after...

//sse
 

tomr

New Member
The value of the Ericson site to us Ericson owners goes way beyond anything any commercial endeavor would be willing to provide for any length of time for any reasonable fee. PSC has demonstrated that. This site is for us and will need to be by us if it is to continue providing its value.
 

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
Check other thread...

Just as an FYI… Gene Kohlmann (President of PSC) has just replied to all the traffic on EY.c, in a post entitled “Why Should PSC Support EY.c?”.

Please post your reply to his message now, and let him know that there are many Ericson Owners concerned about this issue. Click here to open that thread directly:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=1726

Thanks for your continued support!

//sse
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top