High Output Alternators & Serpentine belts

[Jim Picerno]

I am a new owner of an Ericson 38-200. The boat is 1200 miles away and on the hard, and even though I can’t get on the boat, I’ve started to think about upgrading some of the various systems. The boat’s electrical system is extremely rudimentary. It consists of 2 FLA house batteries, and a single FLA starter battery. There is a battery charger (not sure of the brand), but no inverter. And it appears to have the stock alternator which I believe is rated at 52a. There is no solar, or wind power so charging is either from shore power, or the stock alternator. Which brings me to my question which is about battery charging. Is anyone using a high out alternator with a serpentine pulley kit? If so what engine? Which alternator and regulator are you using? And finally how has it worked for you? TIA for your comments.

 

[Kenneth K]

There was a list of Critical Upgrades circulating around a few years back on a Catalina Owner's website. Much of it was pertinent to Ericsons with Universal engines, so many people here used the list as well.

The common electrical items were:
1. Removing the Ammeter (and thus, the alternator output/charging) from the engine panel, and
2. Removing the trailer plugs from the engine wiring harness and replacing with terminal bars.

Unless those modifications have been made on your boat, the combination of either of those items with a high-output alternator can create a real fire hazard.

I'd probably add battery fusing to the list, too, since Ericson didn't put fuses on our battery cables.

CRITICAL UPGRADES - DO THESE OR ELSE!!!

CRITICAL UPGRADES - DO THESE OR ELSE!!!

c34.org

 

[David Grimm]

 

[Pete the Cat]

Let us know your charge rate and results. Seems like your estimates of time are really optimistic, but I am not familiar with the charge profile of lion batteries and would like to learn.

 

[Christian Williams]

Congrats on the purchase. When you get a moment, put your new boat specs in the Signature line. Username/Signature.

Many 38s have the Universal 5432 or M40. A Search of "alternator" will turn up many reports.

I think most of us more or less agree that an upgrade to Balmar 100 or equivalent is easy, and will not require upgraded belt system. This gets to be a long discussion, but the potential issue is belt slippage because of increased alternator demand, which depends on battery charge level--and there are workarounds.

I have three 100 amp hour AGMS, one there only as a reserve (and never used, but kept charged). Any modern marine charger is fine. If you're on a dock with power always connected, 20 amps is adequate. A more powerful charger just charges faster, which is seldom a need for most of us from a shore charger.

In my usage of the boat there is no need for solar or a wind generator, simply because if on a cruise I use the Balmar to occasionally recharge. Needs are different if on a mooring or cruising for weeks without shore power. Adding solar in my opinion needs justification beyond trend.

We have a master list of popular boat issues, here. The blogs have a lot of useful projects in great detail, although it may require patience to find them.

 

[Loren Beach]

I am a new owner of an Ericson 38-200. The boat is 1200 miles away and on the hard, and even though I can’t get on the boat, I’ve started to think about upgrading some of the various systems.

Welcome Aboard!


Pour yourself a cup of coffee or eggnog, and wander thru 20 years of site archives. Try lots of search phrases. The Blog section is easier to roam just because it's much smaller in bytes. Also, note that nearly all the Ericson's (and Olson's) from a similar era will have many of the same parts and pieces in all their systems. One example is that in my club moorage there is an E-38-200 and an E-34 with the same electrical distribution panel as my Olson. Many similar water system parts, too. Winches? Blocks? Yup.
EY was using very good production techniques on all of these, also.
When you are puzzled, just ask a question. Sometimes another owner will reference an existing thread that speaks to your needs. And do not be concerned about adding on to an older thread. Legacy boat systems always /usually benefit from evolving technology.

 

[Jim Picerno]

Thanks for your responses, and I hope everyone had an enjoyable Xmas. I can't do an actual electrical audit until I splash the boat in May, however I have two large electrical loads that I can "swag" some numbers for. Firstly there's the Seafrost refrigeration system. I would expect to use 45 - 65 Ah/day for that system. And then there's the Raymarine ST6000+ autopilot which came with the boat. Researching this, it looks like it will use anywhere from 65Ah - 100Ah/day depending on sea state. Adding in chart plotters, AIS, radar, charging iphones, laptops, etc. I would guesstimate my minimum electrical usage to be around 150Ah/day. I read one of Christian Williams always educational posts about the electrical use on his "32" and he was able to minimize his electrical use on passage down to a phenomenal 22Ah/day. I'm not sure I can achieve such electrical frugality. David Grimm has elected to go with a high output alternator w/ a serpentine pulley kit which seems to be working well for him, though I worry about drive shaft side load and loss of usable engine HP with such a small engine ( theoretical loss of 1HP for every additional 25A generated by the alternator at redline). So, my question is what kind of electrical loads are you generating on passage, and what do they consist of? Btw, I consider multi-day passages as the effective high water mark for electrical use, and I do plan on using this boat for some long passages. Finally I know the "build" number must be buried somewhere in the HIN. Is it the number after the ERY? Thanks as always, for your comments.

 

[Christian Williams]

The refrigeration number is probably much less than that for most of us. A cold refrigerator with some frozen stuff in it in a temperate environment keeps me at 50 degrees on maybe 10-15 amps a day. When cruising from port to port under power, recharge is automatic.

Although a wheel pilot can use 4 amps/hour when working hard, it uses much less than 2 under normal sailing if the boat is trimmed so it nearly sails itself, and even less motoring in a calm. Wheel pilots don't work in heavy air anyhow, so use is temporary--in contrast with belowdecks units that are expected to perform in all weather.

LED lights draw almost nothing, and a chartplotter is only on when sailing--and offshore, gets turned off anyhow. My biggest draw is the Watchmate AIS, which draws half an amp but is on 24 hours. But that's only offshore, and coastwise AIS is on only when needed.

A stereo, I was amused to notice, draws amps according to its volume. Usually, not much. Turn up the Rolling Stones so as to draw the Coast Guard and mine eats 4 amps. Society keeps duration short.

We're all different, but personal needs may be less than expected.

 

[Loren Beach]

....has elected to go with a high output alternator w/ a serpentine pulley kit which seems to be working well for him, though I worry about drive shaft side load....

On this concern alone, remember that the "serpentine" pully allows a lower side load without slippage because of the increased total cross section of belt in contact with the pully(s).
As for the Rolling Stones, almost every song on their "High Tide and Green Grass" album demands to be enjoyed at high volume with the bass knob up to .... 11.... Some of life's pleasures are worth spending extra amp-hours on.

 

[ConchyDug]

I'm not sure the 5432 or M40 serpentine belt pulley kit is in production anymore. I seem to remember looking for it when I swapped to a 100a Balmar with external regulator and it was discontinued. This made me redesign my battery system, I let the alternator charge the lead acid starting battery(on the belt saver mode) then use DC to DC chargers off it to charge the lithium house bank it's not optimal but works. Hopefully later this year we're slapping a Beta 35 in it and will charge the lithium off the alternator(with a protection module) then use the DC to DC for the starter bank. Battery AH usage is a personal preference, when we go out for several days we usually have more than 2 people on the boat and we don't restrict anyone's electrical usage. We pretty much run the reefer and all electronics(radio, chartplotter displays AIS targets) 24/7 while moving, 2-7AH is a rough estimate. We have a below deck ram pilot which pulls quite a bit but I don't have enough data on it yet to report an accurate number but I think it pulls 5-10AH in a moderate breeze. We have long motoring times to get out sailing or offshore so it works out. Sure you can ration out every AH but good luck getting friends that wanna do extended sailing with you. If you solo sail you can be a lot more efficient obviously. I made a spreadsheet for inventorying AH usage so maybe that'll help you, but for me that went out the window with 400AH of lithium. If worried about side loads, just be careful on tensioning and watch the water pump pulley, maybe check the bearings occasionally, it's the weak link not the crank. If it hasn't been mentioned get a way to monitor AH like a shunt battery monitor, brand doesn't really matter, they're all made in China. I threw a 400w amp on the radio too as a "while I'm in there mod"...makes races fun.

 

[Jim Picerno]

Thanks all. Actually Christian, the AP is an older below deck linear drive model so I'd expect similar electric usage to Doug's system. Actually deciding whether to rely solely on the below deck AP for longer passages, or adding a windvane is something I'm evaluating. I must admit to one thing. I thought all you folks were a bunch of jazz aficionados. Shocked to discover other wise. Did I tell you about the time I saw the Stones at Altamont... well we've save that for another time.

 

[Guy Stevens]

Thanks all. Actually Christian, the AP is an older below deck linear drive model so I'd expect similar electric usage to Doug's system. Actually deciding whether to rely solely on the below deck AP for longer passages, or adding a windvane is something I'm evaluating. I must admit to one thing. I thought all you folks were a bunch of jazz aficionados. Shocked to discover other wise. Did I tell you about the time I saw the Stones at Altamont... well we've save that for another time.

Windvanes are great for long passages. Have had them on all our big boats. Although they are out of favor at the moment as they are not electronic in nature. Most now cruising like to use only the autopilot and charge the batteries a lot more. This is helped it the batteries are Lithium.
We have a lot of sea miles under our keels and have found that having a servo pendulum wind vane is easier and much less problematic for our cruising.
YMMV

 

[Christian Williams]

I agree. For weeks of continuous sailing in trade winds a wind vane excels and never tires. But you also need a wheel pilot for very light air and all motoring.

If cruising plans don't include crossing oceans--say port to port, New York to Maine and such, including a few overnight passages, I would consider a linear drive. No wheel pilot needed, no gizmo on the stern, and push- button steering.

 

[Jim Picerno]

At the risk of highjacking my own thread I will mention that I've contacted the folks at Hydrovane, as well as Yves Gelinas, creator of the Cape Horn windvane, to get some ideas about pricing, installation, etc. Everything I've read about the Hydrovane indicates that it's a robust piece of gear, and I like the idea of having an emergency rudder. The Hydrovane is IMHO pretty ugly when compared to the elegance of the Cape Horn vane. However, The Cape Horn's beauty on the outside is somewhat at odds with the Rube Goldberg set of lines, and blocks that are needed below deck. I have no personal experience with windvanes, but I do have experience with below deck AP's, both on my prior boat, as well as crewing with friends, and I believe they can work well for longer passages as long as they're well designed, and married to adequate electrical systems.

 

[Christian Williams]

I like my Cape Horn. But...

E381 - A New Self-Steering Wind Vane, and Why

I recently ordered a new wind vane, this one from Cape Horn. The decision required a review of my own thinking about self-steering, its value, mission and practicality. The Sailomat 800 had served me well on two singlehanded Hawaii sails, and...

ericsonyachts.org

E381 - Cape Horn Wind Vane Installation 2021

Links to videos at the end of the post. The "integral" Cape Horn vane connects the servo-pendulum gear by lines to the ship's quadrant by means of its own quadrant installed on the interior transom. Unlike other servo-pendulum systems, all the...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Jim Picerno]

I like my Cape Horn. But...

E381 - A New Self-Steering Wind Vane, and Why

I recently ordered a new wind vane, this one from Cape Horn. The decision required a review of my own thinking about self-steering, its value, mission and practicality. The Sailomat 800 had served me well on two singlehanded Hawaii sails, and...

ericsonyachts.org

E381 - Cape Horn Wind Vane Installation 2021

Links to videos at the end of the post. The "integral" Cape Horn vane connects the servo-pendulum gear by lines to the ship's quadrant by means of its own quadrant installed on the interior transom. Unlike other servo-pendulum systems, all the...

ericsonyachts.org

But?? I read your cape horn installation blog sometime ago, and fyi I suffered the same sense of dread and impending doom on the second reading. As the plastic surgeon's say "no beauty without suffering".

 

[David Grimm]

Yes, I was pretty optimistic at the time of that video. To make a long story short I did fry that fancy red alternator. Rebuild kit for $35 bucks from a local alternator repair shop and back in business... but why? Somehow the the voltage spiked in the alternator. I assume it was the lithium bank disconnecting for a millisecond or so. I never noticed the loss of power. It also could have been the Balmar external regulator switching back to the default program for led acid batteries (witch it did do). They have a newer unit now that is setup and monitored via Bluetooth and your cell phone, no more tap the red dot with the magnetic screwdriver. To remedy this problem quickly before heading off shore I came up with a solution that would protect my alternator and charge my lithium. I took the rather large AGM battery out of my Harley Road Glide and attached it directly to the alternator. Like a capacitive resistor. Then, attached a Renogy 60amp DC/DC charger. The output of the DC/DC to the battery selector switch allowing me to isolate which bank of lithiums I wanted to charge, house or start. 4 100ah lithiums, 2 in each bank. This is still the way it is today. The DC/DC charger only comes on with the Ign switch, I can also bypass that so it's off completely when full engine power is needed to propel the boat , also I can switch between 60 and 30 amp charge on the fly. No need to charge at 60 amp if we'll be motoring all day. It works very well but a 60 amp charge rate is not what I was looking for. I have yet to find a more powerful DC/DC charger. I may double up using two chargers someday or wait for the Super Alternator to arrive. Our alternators today are very inefficient, they produce as much heat as they produce power. This recent video from Practical Sailor sums it up best. We must have been going through this at the same time.

Fair Winds, Dave