Increasing 35-2 Mainsail size

[alesnloggers]

Hi All,
First post but have been lurking for a while. Thanks to everyone for sharing your knowledge.
We (myself and two boat partners) bought a well used 35-2 in the fall and have been working on her since. New bulkheads, rigging (standing and running), new electrical etc.
We are now at the point we are ready to order sails. One of our local sailmakers has suggested that we increase the main by lowering the boom (can easily go 8" without worrying about our craniums) and go longer on the foot. Has anyone done this? What is the max would you go? Most likely going loose footed. Any thoughts on battens? We are replacing the boom (cracked) with another that will be cut down to whatever length we choose. We will also be adding a furler. What size headsail would you recommend?
The boat is in the PSW (PNW for you south of 48) winds in summer are very light but we sail year round. It's not unusual for us to head out in 30k for fun (usually on the T-bird though)
We have done limited sailing with this boat but the other two partners are competitive sailors so performance is important. That said, this is our cruising boat. The existing sails are garbage so we can't use our few times out as a guide. Our biggest concern is unbalancing the boat. Don't want to have to reef at 10k.

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[Dave N]

16 inches here.

I will be dropping mine 16 inches before spring . In the attached photo you can see just how high it is. I am 6' 2", BTW. Even with lazy jacks the boom height makes furling the main a challenge, even dangerous, in any kind of a sea. Balance will not be an issue.....and if you are set up properly, reefing is no big deal.

 

[alesnloggers]

Thanks Dave. Glad to know we're not the only ones that think the boom is crazy high. We might go more than 8" but that level still allows the shorter members of the crew (I'm 6'3") to stand on the cockpit seats. Still looking at all of our options. I'm not as concerned about how much we drop the boom as I am changing the CE by increasing the foot. That said I'm not overly fond of so much boom sticking out past the clew of the main. Looks a bit odd.

 

[Rocinante33]

When we got our new main a year or two ago, we discussed our options with our sailmaker (Ullman, Ventura, CA). We have a Boomkicker for boom support so we asked him to increase the roach of the new sail a bit. We also went with 2+2 for the battens. That is, the top 2 are full battens and the bottom 2 are half battens. The nice thing about adding roach is it is up where there is more breeze. If you lower the boom (as the admiral does to me from time to time), sure you will get some benefit. But I think there might be more gain from more roach. 'Course you could do both.

Having the full battens at the top helps get the full benefit of the bigger roach, afaik.

Moving the CE aft a bit will give more lee helm, right? Probably not too desirable, so I would definitely check with a good sailmaker for advice on how much to tweak the system. I haven't noticed any difference in the helm, btw.

 

[exoduse35]

You may be happier leaving it the same size. My 35-2 began life as a very successful racer in the SF. Bay back in the '70s. To get a better rating the boom was shortened 3 feet. I have sailed it with both the short and a replacement original length boom/sail. It seems to have sailed at least as well with the smaller main. It loves to carry a large head sail and will take quite a breeze before reefing... I don't think I ever reefed the smaller main even when everyone else was taking in the second. It handled just fine and could more than keep up on a smaller main. The winds in the summer afternoons are typically in the 20 to 30k range in the bay. That accounts for some of the reasoning for the amputation I guess, but I did not miss it and it sailed well and liked being biased toward the power coming from the head sail. Just my experience, others may vary. Edd

 

[alesnloggers]

Thanks again for the feedback.

Edd-What size headsail do you use? We have the opposite summer winds to you. Ours average 9-10k. Most boats up here end up motoring to actually get anywhere.

Ken- Depending on what our sailmaker suggests I think we'll end up doing both.

Lets see if I can upload a pic....
This is how it would look with the new boom (11" longer) dropped 8", approx. increase from +/-275 square feet to 310 (12%). Old is shown dashed for reference.

 

[Barr88]

I've been racing my family 35-2 for all my life. About 8 years ago the boat was demasted due to a snapped stay shackle. We had the mast replaced and lowered the boom 8-10 inches, as well as increasing main size. We've always had to play the main while running larger head sails and have had to reef the main in heavier winds. But now, with the larger main, we need to play the main much much more. In your summer winds, I would recommend larger and lighter headsails. Maybe even an asym. Even if you do lower the boom, I wouldn't increase main size. Just my 2 centsGood luck

 

[exoduse35]

I run all hank on sails so am probably not the best to ask for the perfect size on a furler. My inventory is an 85%, 110, 130 a light and a heavy 150, And a staysail. I have used them all but robably fly the 130 the most then the 110. But the heavy 150 has been too little in very light winds. Seth is sure to chime in when us amatures get done chewing this, and will give you a good number. If you look at the profile of what you will add most of it will be very neer the boom and not realy add much power. It is worth reshaping the sail from the original though if it hasn't been done yet. The original design drooped significantly in the aft and looks funky. It was done to cheet the rules but was not asteticaly pleasing.

 

[Seth]

Bigger main

The decision should be based on the typical conditions where you sail. I am not familiar with BC conditions, but if your average brrezes are under 10-15 knots I think the increase you are proposing is a great idea, and I would do it if it were my boat. The boat will be noticably quicker on all points of sail-and point a bit higher due the CE moving slightly aft

BTW-Moving the C. E. aft by extending the foot and roach area will ADD weather helm, not lee helm. This mod will not make such a difference that is is a problem, but just so you are clear on the dynamics at play. The easiest way to visualize this is to think of a weather vane. Push on the part aft of the pivot post and the "nose" will turn towards you (the "wind"); "weather helm". If you were to push on the part fwd of the pivot post, (representing CE fwd of pivot point, which is equivalent to C.G.), the front of the vane will turn away from the "wind"-lee helm.

Clear as mud?:0

Cheers,
S

 

[beachologist]

Do It

We lowered the boom of our 35-2 18" and had a new main built. We did this for 2 reasons; looks and to make it possible to put the sail cover on without having to use a step ladder. We took a 3 second hit on our phrf rating. The height of the boom in the cockpit will be controlled by the cut of the sail (leech length), we kept ours high enough to not have to worry about it during tacks and jibs. We also had the main built with as big a roach as possible that wouldn't get caugt on the backstay. We left the foot length alone and don't think you really need to add sail area here because there are few boats that can keep up with us in light air.

 

[Dave N]

Where did you find the necessary length of sail track?

 

[alesnloggers]

Thanks again for the input. I've been busy with the holidays and just got back from Mexico so work on the boat has been stalled. Back on it now.

We are going to increase the main, how much is yet to be determined. We'll work that out with the sailmaker. Lots to do before we have to worry about sails. Hope to restep the mast end of February. Figure we might as well redo all the electrical and repaint while its down. I don't plan on removing it again! New boom is being made as we speak.

Dave- we won't be changing the length of the sail track. The gooseneck is adjustable and at/near the top of its slide so when we lower, it the lower slide on the sail will still be on the track.

Seth- any recomendations on headsail size? Thinking 140ish. Cruising not racing but like to sail as fast as we can.

Now just need to decide on halyards, finish the bulkheads, reassemble the interior ..... Oy, I need a beer.

 

[Dave N]

need track

You can see that my bottom sail slide is near the end of the track. I will need to add additional track to drop the boom at all.

 

[alesnloggers]

I see what your talking about. I figured when the new sail gets made they would just put the lowest slide higher on the luff. Now that I'm looking at it again that might be a pain when flaking the sail. Has anyone else who has done this mod had any problems?

I have seen 4' lengths of track so it might be possible to add to the track. Sounds like a hassle though. Not really interested in moving the gooseneck track. We are most likely (assuming funds hold out) going to add a Tides track system. They require 10" minimum between the gooseneck and mast gate anyways. I might have to skip work this afternoon and take a tape measure down to the boat.

Sure is easier to figure out the logistics now rather than after spending a bunch of money.

 

[alesnloggers]

Dave N- went down to the boat today (any excuse to skip work) and my sailtrack goes over the track for the gooseneck. Can't really see from your picture but yours looks different. If we do lower the boom it's pretty easy to add whatever length ( I found a few vendors online) we need then put on our Strong tide track over it.

 

[Seth]

Some stuff

Dave N-As for genoa size it depends on where and how you sail and what other headsails you would use...If you are looking for a one-size does it all, I would go with with something a bit smaller unless most of your sailing is in under 10 knots. In anything over 6-7 knots the boat sails really well with 120-130% headsails, and these sails have much better top ends and are better when partially furled.

I like a smaller headsail and a cruising spinnaker for light air reaching and downwind sailing-it covers a wider range of conditions. That said, tell me more and my opinion might change!

As for more track (Alesnloggers?)-you don't necessarily need more track at the bottom. A jackline will do the same thing and make reefing much easier.

On a plane_gogo inflight quitting-gotta go!

Cheers

 

[steven]

I removed the droop by adding sail areas to the foot. I pinned the gooseneck near original (that is, high) position. That means hoisting the sail higher. Plenty of room at the top of the mast. However, the roach on my (full batten) sail is large and the leech grazed the backstay - so in the end, I dropped the gooseneck a few inches from the original position.

The stack is too high to get the cover on easily. My fix has been a portable step stool - but this season I will add a couple of folding steps near the bottom of the mast.

With the main having a little extra area, I use a 95% working jib. Almost effortless to tack (one day, might make it self tacking or bring the clew inside the stays - still deciding). In really light air (under ~ 7knts apparent) I use a nylon 175% monster jenny - often leave the main furled.

--Steve

 

[Seth]

Big roach

Just something to consider................
There is nothing wrong with the leech hitting the backstay, The amount of time the sail would spend in contact with the backstay is so minimal as to be a non-issue in terms of chafe or wear on the sail. If the overlap is really large, it is possible that in very light air the top of the sail could hang up momentarily during a tack or gybe, and in the worst case you may have to wiggle the backstay so the sail can pop through after a tack or gybe in very light air. These is very rare, and a very minor inconvenience compared to the performance gains in light air and downwind. In any breeze at all, it will not hang up and pop right through.

On all modern racers and cruiser racers the mainsails are built to max allowable roach and the leech pokes out past the backstay-no big deal.

All I am saying is that while it makes sense to play with luff and leech length on the 35-II to optimize sail area and accessibility for reefing and furling as has been discussed here, I would not add the issue of the roach size to the equation (within reason of course, but a 6-8" overlap is no big deal).

If you sail in a lighter air zone and are looking to optimize performance, poke it out there!

Cheers

 

[beachologist]

Balance

I love my 35-2, but I've been thinking some. Is the idea of maximizing main size by lowering the boom to increase the I, cutting the largest P for the boom I have, and having a roach built past the backstay (short of a square top), so I can run with a 105% jib (on an inside track) and adding a short sprit for a code zero and others ain't such a bad idea that's going to screw up the balance of my boat?

 

[Seth]

not to worry

If anything, I think it will make a good boat better. Great idea!