Has anyone had any experience with mechanical backstay adjusters on later model Ericsons? We have an '87 E34 with a new main (1 season) and a new head sail coming in a few weeks to be fitted to the existing Harken II roller furling. I'd like to be able to bend the ast a bit to take up slack inthe headstay, up wind. I've considered a new and/or used navtec/sailtec internal hydraulic, however, they're pricey and used units are questionable. I just came across a Wichard mechanical unit with an 8" wheel that looks fairly interesting (model 5526) that's been used on a number of mid 30 Tartans. It has 7" of travel and seems incredibly simple, if not elegant. Breaking strength is well within the limits of our 9/32 backstay (replaced with all standing rigging two years ago). I was hoping someone had seen/used this rig and could shed some light. It's probably slower than a hydraulic, however, if it's workable, at 1/4 the price, it might make sense. Thanks.
Mechanical Backstay Adjustment
- Thread starter ccorcoran
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- adjustment backstay mechanical
Backstay adjusters
The best solution in my mind would be a used Navtaec self-contained backstay cylinder. Simple, no plumbing, and fast to adjust-If you can find a 2 speed model-so much the better.
Next would be the Wichard you described. Stay away from a mechanical for your boat-too much stuff in the back of the boat and marginally powerful enough.
You will have 2 benefits: Adjusting headstay sag as you say, but equally important is to control and change mast bend-your rig will bend a fair amount, and you can flatten or power up the main as conditions warrant by bending or inbending the mast.
Good luck!
The best solution in my mind would be a used Navtaec self-contained backstay cylinder. Simple, no plumbing, and fast to adjust-If you can find a 2 speed model-so much the better.
Next would be the Wichard you described. Stay away from a mechanical for your boat-too much stuff in the back of the boat and marginally powerful enough.
You will have 2 benefits: Adjusting headstay sag as you say, but equally important is to control and change mast bend-your rig will bend a fair amount, and you can flatten or power up the main as conditions warrant by bending or inbending the mast.
Good luck!
backstay adjuster
My '89 32-200 came with a Dermac mechanical backstay adjuster from a p.o., wheel adjustment like the Wichard you mention. Simple, takes longer than hydraulic units, but does a decent job. Practical Sailor did a review of backstay adjusters in their Year 2000 Gear & Equipment Buying Guide, and covered most brands. Try a search of their site.
Good luck,
Clayton
My '89 32-200 came with a Dermac mechanical backstay adjuster from a p.o., wheel adjustment like the Wichard you mention. Simple, takes longer than hydraulic units, but does a decent job. Practical Sailor did a review of backstay adjusters in their Year 2000 Gear & Equipment Buying Guide, and covered most brands. Try a search of their site.
Good luck,
Clayton
Seth/Clayton,
Thanks for the feedback. I'll check on the practical sailor back issue (guess I'll have to break down and join!). I'd really like to go with an internal hydraulic; in the absence of a sudden windfall, however, I may just go with the Wichard for now. I'll provide feedback to the forum when the deed is done!
Thanks for the feedback. I'll check on the practical sailor back issue (guess I'll have to break down and join!). I'd really like to go with an internal hydraulic; in the absence of a sudden windfall, however, I may just go with the Wichard for now. I'll provide feedback to the forum when the deed is done!
hyd.backstay pics
Chris;
Attached I hope you will find a photo of the backstay on Escapade. I'm not always real good at this computer stuff, so bear with me. At the recomendation of the guys @ Rigging Only I kept the turnbuckle in the backstay. This allows you to have some backstay tension even if the hydrualics fail. I like double redundency in a boat. If you need, I also have close-ups of the toggle. Hope this helps with your installation.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud
E34 "Escapade"
Chris;
Attached I hope you will find a photo of the backstay on Escapade. I'm not always real good at this computer stuff, so bear with me. At the recomendation of the guys @ Rigging Only I kept the turnbuckle in the backstay. This allows you to have some backstay tension even if the hydrualics fail. I like double redundency in a boat. If you need, I also have close-ups of the toggle. Hope this helps with your installation.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud
E34 "Escapade"
Attachments
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stay.jpg
Thanks for the photo!
Bud,
Thanks for the great photo and advice. Well, I broke down and ordered a new Sailtec normal length. Truth is, once I put all the pieces together to install the mechanical version, it was getting very close in cost to a hydraulic; hence, the decision to go with Sailtec.
Once I saw your installation and the limited clearance on the top rail, the additional 4" of the long model would have created more problems. BTW, I did order the jaw/eye/toggle as well. With any luck, I'll be able to install it before we go sailing for the long 4th of July weekend.
Thanks for your help and feedback. Now, we can swap stories about our sailtec backstay adjusters! BTW, did the t-molding arrive?
Bud,
Thanks for the great photo and advice. Well, I broke down and ordered a new Sailtec normal length. Truth is, once I put all the pieces together to install the mechanical version, it was getting very close in cost to a hydraulic; hence, the decision to go with Sailtec.
Once I saw your installation and the limited clearance on the top rail, the additional 4" of the long model would have created more problems. BTW, I did order the jaw/eye/toggle as well. With any luck, I'll be able to install it before we go sailing for the long 4th of July weekend.
Thanks for your help and feedback. Now, we can swap stories about our sailtec backstay adjusters! BTW, did the t-molding arrive?
Chris;
T-molding arrived today. Thanks! I hope to get Escapade away from the dock this weakend and piss off the spiders in the rig! Have applied 3 coats of spar varnish to the cabin sole, hope to get at least 1 more on before Thursday eve so we can get cushions on board and start to enjoy the boat. Have owned ours about the same length of time as you, but ours was not in very good condition when we got her. Definitely need to trade notes on how projects went. Thanks again.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud
E34 "Escapade" #265
T-molding arrived today. Thanks! I hope to get Escapade away from the dock this weakend and piss off the spiders in the rig! Have applied 3 coats of spar varnish to the cabin sole, hope to get at least 1 more on before Thursday eve so we can get cushions on board and start to enjoy the boat. Have owned ours about the same length of time as you, but ours was not in very good condition when we got her. Definitely need to trade notes on how projects went. Thanks again.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud
E34 "Escapade" #265
Nigel Barron
Notorious Iconoclast
One thing that is done on some of the other boats I race on is to attach a ruler to the hydraulic adjuster. It can be any type of measuring device really, it just allows you to quickly reference how much backstay you have on, and also allows you to replicate settings that seem to work well...
Nigel
Nigel
Clayton, Others,
I'm considering a standing rigging refit next season (I think all my stuff is original and 36 years old). I suppose this would be the time (if any) to add a backstay adjuster (I don't have one now). Do you like your mechanical unit / is it suitable for a 32? Do you use it often for cruising? Any recommendations for a pending re-rig?
Ken
If you are not racing this is a very practical way to go. There is a HUGE performance benefit from being able to adjust rig tension when conditions merit, and this is a simple and reliable method. If you do any racing I don’t recommend it unless the racing is the most casual type. The ability when racing to quickly adjust the backstay without someone having to come off the rail and stay in the slowest place to be while doing it change give you may seconds a mile on a 10 mike race. Going to the stern to spin the wheel of fortune almost defeats the purpose, so if racing matters, a hydraulic system you can quickly adjust is best.
Solid choice! Now, make sure to take advantage of what it can do for you. You can set your mast up with tuning to give enough bend to dramatically change the mainsail shape. In light air leave the backstay all the way off for a deep mainsail and a saggy and powerful headsail. If the headstay is bouncing too much as you go through waves, add just enough tension to steady the headstay down.
As the wind builds, you will progressively add backstay which will flatten the main and tighten the headstay (also flattening the headsail). Use the yardstick to get a rough idea of settings for given windspeeds (upwind), but you will always be fine tuning for sea conditions and puffy conditions, so the stick is just a reference. When maxed out in 15+ TWS I would not be surprised to see 3000 lbs on the gauge. You have a powerful tool to add and remove power from your sailplan and will be happy with the results once you get your settings sorted!
Enjoy!
As the wind builds, you will progressively add backstay which will flatten the main and tighten the headstay (also flattening the headsail). Use the yardstick to get a rough idea of settings for given windspeeds (upwind), but you will always be fine tuning for sea conditions and puffy conditions, so the stick is just a reference. When maxed out in 15+ TWS I would not be surprised to see 3000 lbs on the gauge. You have a powerful tool to add and remove power from your sailplan and will be happy with the results once you get your settings sorted!
Enjoy!
Hydraulics are a pita, They are quicker than some mechanical options, but come with a lot of issues.
If you are not in a huge hurry to change the backstay tension (Racing competitively where it has to be done in less than a few seconds). I would recommend one of these: https://www.csjohnson.com/PDF/2010JohnsonMarineCatalog.pdf Page 34.
Or you could go with a cascade system from Colligo which is quicker but might need some rigging changes to the length of the backstay.
www.colligomarine.com
If you are not in a huge hurry to change the backstay tension (Racing competitively where it has to be done in less than a few seconds). I would recommend one of these: https://www.csjohnson.com/PDF/2010JohnsonMarineCatalog.pdf Page 34.
Or you could go with a cascade system from Colligo which is quicker but might need some rigging changes to the length of the backstay.
Projects — Colligo Marine®
www.colligomarine.com
Attachments
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backstay adjuster eyo.jpg
p.gazibara
Member III
On our 35-2 I recently went to a split backstay with a cascade using Dux, a couple low friction rings and a 5-1 block and tackle. It was inexpensive and very effective. I like what the Colligo system was trying to do, but why have an adjustable backstay that is a PITA to adjust?
Our old navtec decided to start leaking on passage from Tonga to NZ and the hydraulic guys here wouldn’t touch it. Bummer because I had two hydraulic units and they couldn’t get the seal kits.
Last time we were out, it was blowing 30 or so and it finally loaded the rig enough to set the splices in place, I’m now going to have to shorten a couple of the cascades, but overall it works great.
-P
Our old navtec decided to start leaking on passage from Tonga to NZ and the hydraulic guys here wouldn’t touch it. Bummer because I had two hydraulic units and they couldn’t get the seal kits.
Last time we were out, it was blowing 30 or so and it finally loaded the rig enough to set the splices in place, I’m now going to have to shorten a couple of the cascades, but overall it works great.
-P
Rocinante33
Contributing Partner
Guy,Hydraulics are a pita, They are quicker than some mechanical options, but come with a lot of issues.
If you are not in a huge hurry to change the backstay tension (Racing competitively where it has to be done in less than a few seconds). I would recommend one of these: https://www.csjohnson.com/PDF/2010JohnsonMarineCatalog.pdf Page 34.
Or you could go with a cascade system from Colligo which is quicker but might need some rigging changes to the length of the backstay.
View attachment 37870Projects — Colligo Marine®
That sounds like a good and economical choice but will that bring a long enough stroke, especially on my fractional rig? I see that the hydraulic integral adjusters have a range of about 9 to 14” but this mechanical adjuster is only about a 6” stroke. So will that 6” be enough to really flatten the main?
If the rig is correctly set up 6" is a huge huge amount of change and should be more than enough to allow you to change the shape of the main.
If you are worried about it though, I would go with the Colligo Dux system, although depending on your current backstay length you may have to shorten it.
G
Just a note, none of the parts are available for the Navtec adjusters anymore. While some of them can be rebuilt using off the shelf hydraulic components some of the time, this is not guaranteed, and frequently requires specific parts from Navtec, who is well out of business.
G
G
RCsailfast
E35-3 Illinois
Offshore Spars rebuilt our leaky Navtec adjuster last winter. They asked for the serial number and said if it was 1 yr older no repairs could be made
